Winter Single Day Climb- Mt Washington, New Hampshire (White Mountains)

>>Anyone use the BPL Cocoon Pro 60's?

Normally I would wear a large size. According to the size chart I wear a small. Not sure whats up with that. Id love to pick a pair up right now for $56 and probably cheaper tomorrow…<<

I didn't look at the size chart just now, but I can tell you that I have the mediums, and they fit me fine. And I'm usually a medium…33 inch waist, 30 inch inseam.

"Normally I would wear a large size. According to the size chart I wear a small. Not sure whats up with that. Id love to pick a pair up right now for $56 and probably cheaper tomorrow…"

I noticed that too – sizing seems to run differently than most.

"I didn't look at the size chart just now, but I can tell you that I have the mediums, and they fit me fine. And I'm usually a medium…33 inch waist, 30 inch inseam."

Mediums say relaxed waist of 38. Thats 5 inch difference. Seams like they will fall right off you.

Im 36" waist 32 inseam. Somethings not right. Maybe I will just order some larges and see if they fit for $50 bucks.

The sizing chart for the UL 60's seem to make more sense than the Pro 60's….any staff member able to comment on that? Is the size chart for the Pro 60's wrong?

I had some for WT3 in 2008. Go with your normal size. These are designed to fit over all your lower layers so when you start accounting for the bulk of all the waist bands you might have on the sizing makes a little more sense. I was around a 34" waist at 5'8 and 175 in 2008 and had mediums.

"The sizing chart for the UL 60's seem to make more sense than the Pro 60's….any staff member able to comment on that? Is the size chart for the Pro 60's"

yeah I would be interested in knowing if that sizing is correct. I bought some Patagonia Micro Puff pants like that a few yrs ago and they were huge on me. Don't want to make the same mistake again

Scott,

I did a 3 day mountaineering course with EMS, they were very professional and really emphasized safety. There were things that could have been improved but overall it was a great intro to mountaineering and has given me a lot of the starters to get into mountaineering. I wouldn't suggest carrying a CCF pad it is just extra weight. They just taught us to throw down our packs and sit on our packs if we needed to sit and have a break.

In terms about climbing Mt Washington if it's winter i'd say wear mountaineering boots. It really depends on weather. If your going above treeline though wear mountaineering boots. You dont want to chance it with frost bite. Thats my two cents. Your toes are worth it!

It was great going with a guide the first time up Mt Washington in the winter. It is a one day climb, unless you want to do a Pres. Traverse or something. Going with ppl. that have previously done Mt Washington is also a good idea. If you have previous climbing experience thats a plus too. Lion's Head Winter Trail is a great trail and usually well worn low avalanche danger too.

I usually wear my Wild Things Guide Pants they do the job for warmth even when it hit -20F (windchill) last yr, no complaint. I'm upgrading my Down Jacket, though to a Belay Jacket.

Scott- feel free to PM me I was just checking out EMS's Mountaineering list they provide and had some suggestions if you wanted them.

I have a pair of Medium Pro 60s. I'm a 32/32 in jeans. I can wear the medium comfortably over a typical winter set up. Microweight wool tights, 100 weight Powerstretch tights, shell pants. Room for one more lightweight layer if necessary. Not overly voluminous, not too tight. High waisted, with a few inches to spare there. Cinches fine with the drawcord.

I climbed Washington several years ago in February. Conditions were pretty bad and the snow in some sections was pretty deep, but it is very do able in a single day as long as you get a good alpine start (around 4-5am). As for footwear some routes require mtneering boots and others are fine with standard boots and or trail runners depending on how daring you are. As for safty gear I always bring puffy belay pants and jkt along with standard bivy, sleeping pad, canister stove, shovel a compass around my neck for above treeline whiteouts and a thermos with hot soup that will keep warm for around 6-7 hours. All in all be safe and have fun!

re: high loft pants for a day hike of Washington

I've summitted Washington in the winter at least a dozen times and spent over a hundred days ice climbing in Huntington, Tuckerman, and King Ravines and have never once worn high loft pants while on the move nor brought them along for a day trip. Neither have any of my partners nor most other people I've seen climbing or on the trails.

Two thin base layers and a wind shell is perfectly fine for your lower body provided you have a high loft jacket for rest breaks and emergencies. (I do bring high loft pants if I'm planning to camp and temps are predicted to be cold.) If conditions are going to be so cold that you need to wear high loft pants while moving, then as a beginner I think it's prudent to bail out.

I've probably turned back without the summit as often as I've summited in the winter. Some days it just isn't meant to be.

If you're going to do Lion's Head Winter trail then I seriously recommend mountaineering boots (don't have to be plastic leather is fine for day trips) and crampons. The bottom of the trail just after leaving the cut-off to Harvard Cabin can be very steep and icy for short sections and if you can front point through those bits you will save a lot of time. (This is assuming the winter trail hasn't been re-routed in the last 5 or 6 years.)

I'm sure light boots/trail runners are fine for experienced winter UL'ers who can judge trail and weather conditions (being local helps too) but honestly – I think as a beginner you should wear mountaineering boots no matter the route you choose as an added margin of safety.

Re: Hiring a Guide

My position always leans toward, "screw that no guide." But now that I think about it that's a personal bias. A guide will definetely increase your chances of summiting, and since you're traveling a good distance to hike Washington in the winter it might not be a bad idea.

If you do hire a guide I would lean toward one of the independent guides rather than EMS/IMCS but again that's a personal bias.

>>The bottom of the trail just after leaving the cut-off to Harvard Cabin can be very steep and icy for short sections… (This is assuming the winter trail hasn't been re-routed in the last 5 or 6 years.)<<

The Lion's Head winter route was rerouted in the late 1990's. I don't believe it's been rerouted since then. The bottom portion does have a couple steep sections…around 55 degrees.

>>>The Lion's Head winter route was rerouted in the late 1990's. I don't believe it's been rerouted since then. The bottom portion does have a couple steep sections…around 55 degrees.<<<

Ok thanks – so it's the same as I recall.

I haven't been on it in 5 or 6 years or so but it was rerouted a couple times (iirc) in the late 80's and early 90's due to avalanches so wasn't sure if that pattern had continued recently.

doh! I tried gambling and lost!

I was gonna see if I could get them for 70% off today. O well

(not entirely related to your gear list)

I noticed you seem to allude to an allegiance to Wild Things… and peoples comments regarding GoLite made me think.

It seems people have these "friend-esque" feelings toward companies like "I like to support (insert name here) because they really get it" or "I like to support the little guy because he's so nice"

Inversely "Don't support them man, they sold out" or "I wont support them because they are war profiteers" (perhaps a subject better suited for Chaff)

but if you are looking to truly improve, lighten, and complete your kit to the best of your financial abilities these feelings are a hindrance.

I mean a company is just that, small or large no difference and of course people are "nice" YOUR PAYING THEM!

I choose gear based on technology, weight, price, and use… No other criteria needed.

Not to suggest that you are doing this but "Emotional" shopping only prevents us from getting to whatever threshold we are aiming at be it light weight, UL, or SUL.

just some thoughts

ThunderHorse Esquire

TE I think you should repost in philosophy and ethics forum. I'm guessing a lot of people will have strong opinions about your comments but it will drag this particular thread way off course.

TE,

Good thoughts and I hear what you're saying. Seems a little more appropriate of a post for Philosophy then Gear List thread.

Without going into it too much and not go off the topic of Gear Lists too much I will say I agree to a certain degree with you. Personally the thought of UL backpacking never really entered my mind till I came upon this site and started to pay closer attention to cutting down gear weight. And it's a great site with a lot of good feedback from other people which I appreciate.

In terms of my clothing that I have selected, UL clothing did not occur to me when I made the purchase a few yrs ago. If it had my purchases might have been different. However I have the gear/clothing now and won't purchase new soft shells or baselayers till the ones I have are in need of replacement.

Dave

loud and clear!

About eleven years ago, I was doing an early winter day hike up Tuckerman Ravine and down Lion's Head. There was a foot or two of snow near the summit. Since it was my first time up there, I was overdressed (five layers on top and three layers on the bottom), heavy leather boots, etc. In my daypack, I had a 1-qt Thermos of hot tea, GPS, and a few other things. Fortunately, I was on the trail by 9 a.m. and hit the summit at 1 p.m. at the onset of a snow storm. On the summit, I couldn't drink the tea because it was too hot. I reached the bottom at 5 p.m. and headed toward my lodging. On the news, I heard of another climber who had gotten pinned down by the storm along the Alpine Garden (maybe one hour behind me), and apparently he did not have enough gear to hold out for long. He made a cell phone call to 911, and the rescue team rolled up the road after him. Since the climber was only a short distance off the road, they found him and hauled him out to the hospital. I guess the moral is: 1.Get an early start unless you want to try to wait out a storm.2.Carry plenty of gear anyway.3.Carry a cell phone, but don't count on it getting through.
–B.G.–

Here are some photos taken on a hike up Lion's Head:

http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/228158607ptuljl

NB: No pictures from the summit. My camera froze up. Be sure the batteries in your camera are Lithium

Be sure your mittens are secured with a wrist strap in case you have to remove them, for example, to adjust a strap or crampon. Removed gloves placed on the ground have been known to have been blown away, including a hiker who lost his life, slipping over a ledge while chasing a glove being blown away along the ground.

Take a bivy sack. I know of someone who was caught in a storm on Washington and had to spend the night who saved herself because she had a bivy. Another less prepared day hiker lost her life in the same storm on another nearby mountain.

Take crampons. Even on packed snow, crampons will give you improved traction. Above Tukermans' ravine, ice is the norm. Wind blown snow will most likely be crusty, too.

Sure you can hike it in low cuts, but don't do it in winter. You are asking for frosbite or at least freezing toes. If for any reason you have to stand or stay in one spot for a while, you definitely want insulated boots. I know many hike in New England winters without insulated boots, but….

You do not need plastic mountaineering boots if you do not have them, but other models of insulated boots are not expensive and many are not heavy. Make sure you can fit crampons on them, however. For example, I have seen Baffin Boots reviewed at this site.

You can rent plastic boots from EMS, or Wilderness Mountaineering right in North Conway only a few miles from Mt. Washington. They are comfortable and a luxury. They are perfect for a Mt. Washington hike.

Wearing crampons, you will find that the heavier gaiters might more durable to resist tearing. Crampons often rip gaiters.

Face mask and ski googles?

Small head lamp with lithium batteries.

Have a turn around time and stick to it regardless of where you are on your hike. January days are short!

BTW those photos were taken on a cloudless windless day on the mountain a day after a fresh December snowfall. Beautiful!

Next time I tried hiking Washington in winter it was 17 below zero and howling winds at the Hermit Lake shelter where we spent the night. So, that is as far as we got, but the days were cloudless and we still had fun!

On winter hikes I put liner gloves on at the trailhead and never take them off. I have not had frostbitten fingers in awhile now.