Winter Single Day Climb- Mt Washington, New Hampshire (White Mountains)

Hoping to do this next month….thanks!

No problem Scott. Any suggestions you can see to improve gear/weight?

3 pairs of gloves?
unless two of them sync to create a layered mit system
I think two is fine one mitt one glove.
One for walking warmth one for dexterity

Could have lighter gaiters not the expedition versions.
Sabertooths are on the heavy side.

WT B. Jacket Wild things Im assuming? There are lighter Down Fill Jackets out there. 18 oz is mine

You could MYOG a camera case:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/bubble_wrap_duct_tape_camera_case.html

my version of that is .4 oz

Two sam Splints? you may just have two listed

Two nalgenes, could just use 1 lighter bottle or two lighter plastic bottles (reused bottles)

Thats what I saw.

tell me what you think of my list:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=27324

David and TenTon: Snowshoes! You usually need to carry them.

Water: 2 liters minimum plus a way to keep it from freezing (start with 100 degrees C water). Dry winter air dehydrates you and dehydration makes you more vulnerable to the cold.

Wind: Neoprene face mask + goggles or other way to protect face from cold wind (military surplus tunnel hood works for me). Extra hats and mitts for when your good ones blow away. Polypro liner gloves so you don't have to adjust gear with bare skin.

Small thermos filled with something like hot chocolate (calories + hot), useful when on the edge of hypothermia.

David, I think the shovel may not be useful. I'm not sure snow caves are feasible in exposed above treeline locations — any other opinions on this?

sounds good, possibly a little heavy on the cloths – might leave the primaloft sweater or shell at home. Most of the time I'm good w/ a baselayer, R1 hoody and r2 vest. I also sometimes in the cold pack a r.5 top.
Also maybe a little heavy on the safty stuff – I thought you were ice climbing in the other thread. Why do you need flares if you could use your headlamp to signel after dusk?
Gloves I feel are good with 2-3 total.
A bothy bag would be good.
Might drop the gaiters if your pants seal around your boots well
other then that sounds like a good list – enjoy

FYI wrap your (hot) water in your belay jacket at the trailhead, I find that keeps it warm most of the day. Have another in a bottle parka on your waistbelt for access.

First thing that caught my eye on your list was the Wild Things gear! Sounds like you have a good setup there. How do you like the superlight jacket?

I've done this hike a couple times myself. Off topic, I've decided to not take Lion's Head anymore just because of how steep it is, even if it makes me a wuss. I'm more for Boott Spur and an early start I think.

Anywho, the sam splint is one thing that I would take out. It does look like you have it on the list twice. In either case, for that weight I usually carry a torso length ccf pad in case I'll be spending the night. I always plan on spending the night, even if I'd rather not! The pad can also be used as a splint.

As for the shovel, I use one of the plastic ones found here on BPL.

You know this I bet, but for others, the snowshoes are optional if the trail up to Lion's Head is groomed out, but they do help a bit. I cache mine at the start of the real climb.

I think your clothing is pretty good right now. Mine is similar but I go with lighter layers since I run hot. Let me know if you'd like a list of any kind.

How warm is the blizzard bag? Maybe a loft equivalent for comparison if one exists.

Don't forget a knife and fire starter! Well, that's just me I guess.

cheers,
-jim

Thank you everyone for your input. I meant to just put one SAM Splint, you guys are really observant. I will consider taking it out all together though.

Also I was going to take 2 pairs of gloves, the Absolute Mittens and either the BD Punishers or the Hestra Ski Cross gloves. I'm going to try out the Hestra's I've never used leathers and they are warmer. Maybe not as breathable we'll see how they workout.

Generally snowshoes arent needed on the Lions head trail it is pretty well used and packed down for the most part.

One thing an EMS Guide taught me instead of bringing a lot of water out like 2Liters was to hydrate a LOT the night before. I generally carry one bottle on my belt the other in my pack. One is water the other is gatorade.

I should have mentioned this earlier but at the head of the Lions Head winter trail is an emergency cache. Last yr for the first time I brought a $10 Benny's Sled and put all of my gear in it and stored all the extras at the cache. So I think I will bring additional water/food for the hike up then store the extra gear here before the climb past treeline.

Knife is on the Leatherman. I've only used it to open food though. Good point about the flares as well. I always just try to be very prepared. Sorry about any confusion from another post I have ice climbed a handful of times but 99% of the time it's mountaineering. The shovel would also be a new piece of equipment for me. I could have used it two yrs ago to clear trail of new fallen snow. We'll see how I feel about it. I agree I'm not sure at least in NH how it would do above treeline exposed to build a snow cave, might be better off getting below tree line asap. Still unsure.

The Blizzard Bag is said to be good down to around 40F. I've never used this product. Only read reviews. I have considered a few other bags for emergency purposes. Wild Things makes a Half Bag but it's up there for weight. Bothy bag seems like a decent option as well for an emergency shelter. I've never packed an emergency bivy/shelter so I am unsure what would work best in the White Mountains. Is a snow cave feasible in bad weather if so would a bivy be best. If not would a quick set up of a bothy bag be the best option for Mt Washington?

The Superlight Alpinist Jacket is nice no complaints it's a solid hard shell jacket. Although I might take it out of my gear list for Mt Washington. Don't get me wrong I understand the use of a hard shell but, the Belay Jacket also will protect against the elements.

Gaiters I've never been successful with. The OR Expedition are ok. I've been looking at the new BD Apex Gaiters.

One thing I'll say about the Wild Things clothing. It is made from a local climbing company in North Conway, NH. A guide turned me on to them a few yrs ago. One thing I like about them even if the Belay Jacket is a little heavier, is they are a local small company. In such a down economy I try to support the small businesses. The other reason their gear is well made and they are an easy company to work with.

I like the idea of a thermos with hot choc. I could put that in my sled for the hike up to the cache. I'm trying to change my eating from a million cliff bars to something I enjoy more like pizza etc. It'll improve my morale to have a sausage pizza compared to a cliff bar.

Thank you for the suggestions and comments. If you have any others please post. It's a great help with organizing my winter gear.

"…. might be better off getting below tree line asap. Still unsure."

I would like to hear if anyone knows a way you can stay sheltered above treeline without setting up a serious 4 season tent. I would think the only recourse is to get below tree line as soon as possible- but what if you are injured and can't get below treeline? I have a Wildthings Half bag that I thought I could mate with a Parka but I still need to go outside and see how warm this is. I still bring it because its better than nothing.

Brian,

Good question about what ppl do above treeline if injured or stuck above treeline and how they seek shelter. I've thought about posting this question. How do you like the Half Bag? What are your thoughts on it's weight, durability, warmth? I just ordered the Blizzard Bag. I don't like how it's a one time use type of bag. But it seems to have good feedback. I am ordering the Wild Things Belay Jacket so that may work well with the Half Bag.

I haven't used the half bag I just carried it as emergency gear. Thats why I said I needed to try it out -like in the yard or something to see how warm it is. I have a Patty DAS parka that I would use with it. It has an epic shell that feels pretty durable. It is kinda heavy and bulky but it is synthetic which I guess is good for an emergency bag. I imagine using the combination parka/halfbag in a W/P bivy for emergencies. I still haven't gotten around to making the bivy.
Also I got the halfbag real cheap.

Brian,

Let me know how you like the half bag when you test it out. If I do get it I can get a discounted military price as well. So that's one reason i'm considering it too.

James, post away your gear list it'd be great to have a White Mnt gear list to compare. Also why do you bring a CCF pad for mountaineering?

Thank you everyone for your input I appreciate it. If anyone has any other good suggestions post away.

Finally coming back to this….your list is close to mine, but with a couple exceptions.

For one, I carry a PocketRocket stove w small canister in the winter…I also may have missed it in your list, but I also carry an emergency bivy. Note that you also listed your SAM splint twice…

I do like the idea of the flares – hadn't seen them before but think they'd be a good add to my pack.

I hope to be up there on the 16th…

Most of my winter hiking friends carry a small piece of CCF to sit on during breaks…otherwise your backside gets a bit chilly! I actually took a Tyvek Fedex envelope, put in a small piece of an old yoga mat, and taped it up. Easier to carry and quite insulated enough to sit on.

A buddy of mine and his friend are doing a 7 day mountaineering primer class threw Alaska mountain guides school and where talking about doing Mt Washington before they go to AK. I told them I was interested and I would have to get a couple of things first. They said they didn't have everything quite yet for over night trips. I told them you don't need all that stuff and we could do a day trip. They said you can't do it in a day.

So basically I'm wondering if it is something that we could do in a day. I have no winter mountaineering experience my self but hey have some. A Guided Rainer trip. I know this mountain can be a scary one. Is this something we should have some someone who has done it before go with us?

Thanks

I personally haven't done it, but do know it can be done in a day. I just signed up with EMS to do it in a couple weeks – check here:
http://emsclimb.com/mountaineering_mtwashington.html

Also, there are two other forums with TONS of info about climbing Washington…Views From the Top (viewsfromthetop.com) and Mt Washington Observatory (mwobs.org)

You can easily hike up Mount Washington in a day.

You don't need a guide for it provided you have at least some experience with hiking in winter conditions and you have some basic experience with crampons and an alpine axe and you pay attention to the weather and avalanche conditions.

Most people get in trouble on Washington because they're either unfit or they ignore weather and avalanche warnings.

Do you really need mountaineering boots? Can I do it in inov8 390 gtx's and katoola crampons?

I know a large number of people who have done this in winter….nearly all use mountaineering boots (which you'll probably need in Alaska, too). There are places near there that rent them, and the EMS course includes the boots, ice axe and crampons.

You could probably use a decent pair of winter boots, but from the looks of the ones you mention, I'd be hesitant myself to wear those for fear of frostbite.

>>Do you really need mountaineering boots? Can I do it in inov8 390 gtx's and katoola crampons?<<

I can say without a doubt, that it depends on conditions. I've been on George probably a dozen times in winter.

Last winter, I traversed the entire Prezzies in a day wearing trail runners and Microspikes.

Earlier that winter, I climbed Tuckerman Ravine in double boots and crampons, and traversed across the northern Prezzies to Appalachia, never removing the crampons.

A couple weeks ago, I started in Crawford Notch, hiked over the southern Prezzies, up Washington, and back…and never removed my lightweight winter boots (200g Primaloft) and snowshoes.

There is definitely no one right answer.

–My typical gear list–

Worn:
– 1 light polypro top
– 1 light polypro bottom
– 1 hard shell pants
– 1 pair of synthetic boxer briefs (worn over the polypro bottoms to keep my special parts insulated from the wind – sometimes I stuff a hat in there, too)
– 1 light sythetic beanie
– 1 soft shell jacket
– 1 pair of liner gloves
– 1 pair of shell gloves
– 1 light neck gaiter
– 1 pair of gaiters

---

Worn in winds and/or extremely low temps:

– 1 pair of liner mitts
– 1 pair of shell mitts
– 1 hard shell jacket
– 1 fleece sweater
– 1 balaclava
– 1 heavier wool hat
– 2 pairs of goggles

---

Safety (and/or for rests):

– 1 down jacket
– 1 insulated pants
– small first aid kit
– 2 headlamps
– 3/4 length Thermarest Expedition
– MYOG Tyvek bivy

---

Misc:

– mountaineering axe
– crampons
– snowshoes
– "MYOG" repair kit for snowshoes and crampons
– Microspikes
– map & compass
– GPS

---

Note that this is (for me) an exhaustive list of all the things that I could bring. I don't always bring all of them, depending on the route and conditions. I'm not listing my footwear, because I base that decision *solely* on route and conditions, and I have a few different options, so…

Looks like a good list – what insulated pants do you carry? Anyone use the BPL Cocoon Pro 60's?

I generally carry backups on gloves/liners/socks in case they get wet – I'm guessing that's more important in the ADK's where there are still streams/lakes to cross than it is in the Whites…is that the case?

Anyone use the BPL Cocoon Pro 60's?

Normally I would wear a large size. According to the size chart I wear a small. Not sure whats up with that. Id love to pick a pair up right now for $56 and probably cheaper tomorrow…

>>what insulated pants do you carry?<<

Indeed, I use the Pro 60s…although I paid a lot more for them than you'd pay to get them right now.

>>…backups on gloves/liners/socks…<<

I spend a respectable amount of time in the Dacks too, and I generally don't carry any gloves besides what's on that list. I just add dry layers over damp layers if my hands get cold, and things will eventually dry out…but more importantly, I stay warm.

In my experience, stream/lake crossings are about equal between the two areas…if you're sticking to the popular trails/peaks. But, of all the 4000 footers in NY and NH, I'll admit that the Opalescent crossing for Allen is probably the toughest.