Summit Shelters

JT,

If I can second what advice has been offered to you…I wouldn’t put much stock (and certainly no money) in those comments…

H,
You just convinced me to spend a bit more time looking over your product with the intent to purchase. Excellent business ethics.

Like the inspector from Scotland Yard arriving after the case is solved, I am arriving late to this inquistion. I can’t believe that Bob Molen is not following this thread and is not aware of the damage being done to his company by the responses posted here.

No business can survive long without good customer relations and word of mouth, especially in the cottage industry of Lightweight backpacking gear manufacture. That he would not chose to respond and let the 2nd person conversations of a few people who have contacted him stand as his response should give everyone pause.

My suggestion to all those who feel injured by Big Sky is that you contact the state department of corporations in the state that Big Sky operates and file a complaint and request an investigation of his business practices. Believe me when I tell you that no business would want this to happen. Additionally, call your own state department of corporations and file a similar complaint. You may have to do each of these in writing but the result would be a pretty quick call to his operation from the his state and perhaps a change in his practices. If he has cashed your check and not delivered a product, you have the option of small claims court as well and possibly a further claim of fraud.

I do not agree with all of the defenses and excuses that have been mounted in his defense. No business deserves to survive if it can not meet customer demand and carry on in an ethical manner regarding payment and delivery. The record is strewn with the bodies of great companies with great ideas that people want and/or need but which failed to deliver. This may be another in a long line of great ideas that are still born.

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Jen,

If you’re willing to carry a Hubba Hubba (4 lbs) may I recommend the Big Agnes SL3. What a tent: palatial to the extreme; space for 3 adults or for 2 adults who are far apart and far from the sides, and only 4 lbs. with a 3-lb fast fly option.

/my 2 cents CAD

Brian

Thank you Brian. I hadn’t let myself consider a 3P. I liked the Big Agnes SL2, but it was too small. I’ll go look at the SL3.

Jen

You are not alone, I ordered my tent May 1st and Pay Pal charged my credit card and I have taken 2 trips and have my last and longest trip in 3 weeks. I am with you that most companies do not charge your card until they ship.
From the looks of things so far I think I have bought some bull—-. I could have hand sewn my own tent by now. I guess all I can do is wait or maybe contact the state attorney generals office.

I noticed that today on Big Sky’s website expected shipping dates have been moved out from mid-August to late August…

What the heck…

I planned to take this tent to a spring trip, but now even the summer is going to the end…

In early July Bob and I agreed on a deadline for shipment of my tent and he met that deadline and I now have it!!! After setting it up in the yard I am as impressed as many reviewers at the feature set and space for the weight. This may well be the ultimate ‘couples’ tent for those trips where headnets and tarps, no matter how light, just don’t provide enough coverage.

I also want to note that I sent a few questions to Bob last night and received a thorough response within hours!

Let’s hope that this is more indicative of future customer service pracitices for Big Sky.

Hi I have emailed Big Sky twice requesting a refund for a 2p tent and footprint. More than a week has passed and I still have not received my money. I tried to file a complaint with Paypal but since more than 45 days have elapse since my purchase I can’t fill out a dispute claim online. I will call them tomorrow and try to get them to open a dispute claim for me. If they do not I will have to call my credit card company and report my purchase from Big Sky as fraudulent. Big Sky is the worst online dealer I have ever had the misfortune to order from. They have had $332.89 of my hard earned dollars since March 28. This is an absolute outrage! Has anyone here successfully received a refund for a tent from Big Sky?

I have an Evolution 1P-EX for sale in the “gear swap” forum. Brand new, I can ship it immediately. My misfortune (broken leg) will be someone else’s gain :(

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/3681/index.html

Steve,

When did you place your tent order? I ordered mine back at the end of February 2006 and paid in full…just curious how long you had to wait…

John, I ordered it at the end of Dec. for April delivery. Hopefully you’re up soon.

Many posts ago (p.2), I pointed out that BackpackingLight’s published policy with regard to backorders was to take your money and let you wait it out, but that at least they were up front about the policy by telling you so. I just happened to check back and noticed that the policy has been changed so that backorders are no longer accepted. This simply confirms my suspicion that not only are the people at BPL highly ethical, they are also responsive to their reader/customer base, and try to anticipate and avoid ethical conflicts when they can.

My hat’s off to Ryan et. al. for their action.

Glenn:

I too came across recently BPL’s new policy of not taking backorders and charging customers before the gear is even available for shipment. Kudos to BPL for this change!

But to be fair to Bob Molen and Big Sky, they too spelled out their policy upfront: order and prepay — and pay 20% less! So it isn’t fair for folks to now accuse Bob for being unethical on this front.

To me, there are two separate issues:

1. Pre-payment – I don’t see anything wrong with this so long as it’s spelled out up front — and in the case of Big Sky, it was spelled out pretty clearly.

2. Continuing shipment delays – THIS is where I believe Bob fell short. The promised delivery time was April (for those who prepaid back in December). Bob should have (1) kept customers up to date on progress (or lack thereof) AND (2) take the initiative and OFFER customers a refund and an apology — say back in April or May when he couldn’t deliver as promised. Instead, buyers got nothing but silence, and it’s now August!

Ben:

I’ve never been intrigued enough by their products to visit Big Sky’s website, so I didn’t know (or care) what their policy was. (I’m a tarp-and-bivy partisan, myself.) My original post was merely to point out, when others were complaining about Big Sky’s take-the-money-and-wait policy, that BPL also followed that policy, and express approval of them publishing the policy up front. I didn’t really know if Big Sky had a published policy, or really even intend to comment about their policy; if my original post came off as such, I owe everyone an apology.

Like you:
1) I have no problem with a policy that is known (or available to be known) prior to ordering.
2) I believe that when shipping problems occur, you have an obligation to be up front with customers, and take some timely action to make things right for them.
3) I think BPL deserves praise for changing their policy to prevent the kind of frustration Big Sky customers are experiencing.

For the fans of Big Sky tents (and there seem to be many), I hope the recent posts indicate that the problems may soon be solved.

Glenn:

Sorry that I misread your post above; thanks for clarifying.

Personally, I could care less when I pay… as long as I’m notified when something is out of stock and given options and / or informed how long it will be before I get what I ordered etc. Assuming you’re dealing with a reputable business, communication is what matters… not when they take your money.

I received my refund check from Big Sky this past Saturday. I deposited it and am waiting for it to clear. I hope they do well and can get over the hump as their tents look interesting but they need to improve their customer service tremendously. A simple mass email updating their customers would have avoided a lot of problems. You can’t miss 5 ship dates in a row and not update your customers.

Update: apparently revision E has now been introduced and shown along with other new shelters…the website indicates 4-6 week leadtime for orders placed today with an additional 4-6 weeks for rev. E. In addition clips may be subbed for pole sleeves at no extra charge. I continue to wait for my revision D tent ordered (and paid for) over 24 weeks ago. (Evolution 1P 2V)…

Just received my 2P2D2V yesterday. Sure was a long wait. Everything was included. Rev D with CF poles (I actually ordered aluminum, but that’s another story). Can’t wait to try it out. Hope all you who are still waiting get yours soon too.

For anyone that has actually received their tent from Big Sky, when did you order it? I ordered my Evolution 2P2V at the beginning of Feb. and am still waiting….. although Bob told me I should have it within 30 days (that was on July 21st).

I ordered my tent on May 2 and they charged my credit card and never did recieve the tent so I asked Bob for my money back. They did return my money and I ordered a Stephenson’s Warmlight Tent. Cost a little more but I think it is a superior tent. I saw 3 others on a recent trip to Cottonwood Lakes in the Eastern Sierrra of California. Held up great in very high winds. Very, very easy set-up. Can’t wait to see how it holds up in the rain.

Tom,

When did you place your order?