Nallo 2 vs. Warmlite 2R

Peter, in the Scottish Highlands I mostly use the Hilleberg Akto, which I find ideal for the wet, windy conditions and which I can pitch in a couple of minutes. In the winter I sometimes use a GoLite Shangri-La 3 for the extra space. I wouldn't use this in the summer because of the midges. In drier areas such as the Western USA I prefer a tarp. In the Highlands I only use a tarp outside of midge season and when the forecast is for good weather.

Thanks for a bit of clarity on tarps in Scotland Chris as it's been a bit of a debate on the forums. On the Akto it is good as I had one, but short on head room if you are over six foot and in my opinion a bit on the heavy side these days for a solo tent. For space to weight Peter I would say Terra Nova tents like the Laser have more to offer.

Martin, I have the advantage of being 5'8"! I can sit up in the Akto. The Terra Nova Laser Competition is much lighter and a good tent but it's not as stable in my experience and doesn't have as much porch space. I camp high on exposed sites quite often so stability and room to cook in the porch are important to me.

Chris I would point out that though the Akto has 10cm more depth on the porch vs. the Laser (not the Competition) this is not a true reflection of usable porch space. The Akto loses space as the porch cuts back from the centre pole at about 45degrees approx. This reduces the space at the ends, unlike the laser which has a usable porch the whole length and you can store items right at the very reachable ends. On stability good point but you can re guy (again Laser has extra guy points unlike Competition) them and I find it’s a good as my old Akto so far. We had a big comparison at

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/13028/index.html?skip_to_post=95742#95742

a while back. On stability don’t forget the Laser had a test by Steve Perry on his first continuous winter round of the Munros and he gave it the thumbs up in the TGO. So it’s got a proven rep theses days. And Pete at PTC world has never had a Competition Laser fail him and he has not pitched below 807m in the Highlands. Any way before we go of at a tangent good luck with the new role with BPL and Q. I hope your still gear editor for the TGO, as I have learnt more about lightweight backpacking from your writings than any one.

Martin, I was comparing the Akto with the Laser Competition. I haven't tried the Laser. It is the depth in the porch that is important to me, as that makes it easier and safer to cook with the doors shut. The Akto porch is the right size for me in that I can store pack, boots and wet gear on the closed side and cook in the other side. I guess I've used the Akto so much – on a 4.5 month walk and hundreds of other nights – that it's almost automatic for me. I always pitch it as a unit so I can erect it in a few minutes and then organise my gear inside in a few minutes more. If I was over 6' I would certainly want a tent with more headroom though.

Steve Perry used the Laserlite, the tent that became the Competition, if I remember rightly.

Thanks for the good wishes. I will be continuing with TGO.

Chris thanks for the clarity about Laser or competition misunderstanding. On porch size I am lazy in that I cook in the porch lots, good weather and bad. I just like sitting on the sleeping mat and watching the hills and deer coming down to the glen with a brew on. Point in question, what is a safe size porch to cook in. I look at some of the tarp tent /single skin tent type shelters and think that their size of porch isn’t deep or that large to offer the option of safe cooking in bad weather (some don’t even have a porch). Is there a kind of recommended minimum: height, depth, width to ensure safe cooking in a tent porch in bad weather? I know common sense says don’t cook in the porch but we do.

Martin, when I began backpacking (some time ago now!) I learnt that cooking in the porch was standard practice and for me in the UK it still is. For that reason I regard porch size as very important for tents for UK use. What is a safe size for cooking depends on the stove you'll be using. I think there should be enough space around and above the stove that if it flares or falls over the flames will not reach the tent fabric. Many tents – single and double skin – have porches too small for safe cooking in my opinion.

Chris wise words and advice on porch size, especially to people hiking in the wet UK and looking to go very light with a small shelter which saves weight by skipping on things like having a good size porch. Better safe than sorry! Any way safe hiking.

Chris
What stoves have you used inside the porch of the Akto ?
Anyone safer than the others ?
(saves me searching for the info…)
Franco

Franco, I've used many stoves over the years in the Akto. Most have been screw-in canister stoves like the Primus Micron, Optimus Crux or MSR Pocket Rocket, as these are my favourite solo stoves. These do require care to ensure they are stable of course. I've also used the Jetboil PCS, which requires even more care. Hose-connected stoves like the Primus Gravity are more stable but heavier – I've used several of these as well. I have also used various alcohol stoves including the White Box Stove, Brasslite Turbo II-D and the ACG stove. I reckon the safest stoves are the hose-connected canister ones – but they are also the heaviest so I only use them in sub zero weather.

Thanks Chris
Perhaps three extra nail pegs would add a bit of safety, I am hoping that the Caldera Cone will take care of that. Certainly it would be nice to have a lighter version of the hose connected stoves. Tony Beasley made a very light version (can't find that thread now) but he may not want to spend a few days making another…
Franco
Sorry about the diversion…

The Caldera Cone is fine in an Akto as long as its positioned with plenty of space above the burner as it can flare. I always use a windscreen with a stove in the Akto anyway. Apart from being more efficient I reckon it adds to safety by retaining the heat in a smaller space.

> What stoves have you used inside the porch of the Akto ?
Most if not all canister stoves should be OK.
Trying to prime an MSR XGK might be a bit tricky: the instructions refer to a football-sized fireball as being normal…
Few alkies throw a very high flame so most should be OK.

Cheers

I have owned an Akto since they first came out and have used a variety of stoves, including MSR/Optimus/Primus liquid fuel stoves, without any problems.

These liquid fuel stoves can (and often do!) flare alarmingly, but I have never sustained any damage to the tent.

Hose-fed cannister stoves are the most stable and the flame is lower, so further away from the tent fabric, but the lighest I have found is the MSR Windpro, which is over twice the weight of a screw-in stove.

In my old Akto I had a Snow Peak gas canister stove which when I lit it in the porch flared up with a fault on one occasion. In this case I had the door open and it went out in to the rain. The porch depth was a factor in why I had no damage to the tent (the flames went very high). It is a known fact that liquid fuel stoves can flare, but gas canister ones can go wrong. If you camp in wet weather and need to cook in a porch of your shelter it makes sense to allow for the fact that stoves can malfunction and this could have fatal consequences. Choose your porch depth and height appropriately when purchasing your next tent (single or double skin).

The other very cool thing you can do with a Nallo is use two trekking poles, with two guylines and two pegs, (or trees etc..) to pitch the central door up like a porch. If the rain is not blowing, this gives you a tremendous little porch to cook under with more than enough clearance for even and MSR XGK. You can basically pitch it as high as you want (pole and guyline length being the only limiting factors).

Allison given that you have tinkered with commercially made gear and made some of your own , when you had the Stephenson did you consider adding a mesh door at the front pole and turning that space in front into a vestibule ,by adding a zip or cutting a hole in it ?
I was going to suggest Velcro but get the impression that you are not a that keen on it.
(I have never seen a Stephenson in real life so I don't know how stupid this idea really is…)
Franco

Not a lot of velcro on a Stephenson's…that's one thing in their favour!

I never considered the option of adding a front vestibule as I already had two meshed windows to work with, plus the fact that the 'window' covers could easily be pitched as a rain awning. To add an extra bit of mesh plus zipper (or velcro) to the front door still wouldn't keep the rain out or allow a covered cooking/gear storage area. I just really dig rain awnings ever since I was corrupted by the DR :0

I think I'm going to have to get at least 2 tents!

The Nallo is very good for cooking in the porch. The highest part of the tent is where you would want to put a stove. The high vent of the tent is just in the right place to carry away fumes and damp. The inner door slopes backwards so is it is out of the way.
Chris pointed out that the jetboil needs care. I think that is because it is tall and narrow and so might tip over. On the other hand the flame is very enclosed and baffled, any explosive ignition is reduced. Jetboil do make feet that clip on to any canister and neatly store in the burner when packed. I recommend them to make the jetboil safer in a tent.
After the Nallo my other tent a Laser seemed at first trial too small to cook in the porch. I have however stitched on a loop which pulls the centre of the edge of the groundsheet back 200mm. With the inner door open this gives enough height and space to use a stove. I still miss the well placed high vent to clear fumes, but I am working on that

The Nallo has a much bigger porch than the Akto and I'd be happy to use a Jetboil in it. Many years ago I spent a summer hiking the length of Norway and Sweden with a Nallo 2 (this was before the Akto appeared). I used an MSR XGK in the porch on many occasions without problems, though I did always prime it outside.