Nallo 2 vs. Warmlite 2R

I have seen both of these tents and own a Hilleberg Nallo 3GT and the Stephensons.

Comments:

– I hate the fact that the Stephensons does not have a vestibule. When you open the door, rain will come straight into the tent. And you have to leave your wet gear outside. Also, you are forced to cook inside the tent.

– Sealing the Stephensons is messy and it’s not clear how good a job you have done until you test it and have to re-seal again.

– It is difficult to get the Hilleberg tight enough to shed snow really well. The Stephensons is a bit better in this regard.

– The inside room in the Hilleberg is probably less than the Stephensons

– For really windy conditions above the treeline, I would prefer a four pole tent so I don’t hear flapping walls all night long in both of these tents. However, if you can find places to camp where there is some shelter, this would not be a determining factor

– You can pitch the Stephensons tent really tight, probably tighter than the Hilleberg

– Consider the Stephensons 3R, the extra room in wet conditions would be worth it

– Condenstaion in the Stephensons is worse, as it is really a 1.5 wall tent.

In my opinion, these tents fill a niche. They are useful when the weather is miserable and you just cant stand being in a tarp but they are not full on four season shelters.

If I had to buy again, I would consider this tent http://www.hilleberg.com/2006%20Products/NewJannu.htm for its extra strength in high wind.

SO useful. Exactly what I was after.

Thanks!

When you say that these are “niche-market” tents, what are you thinking of as the “niche” that they serve?

Before these two, I was looking at the MSR Hubba Hubba as a high area-to-weight, double-walled, storm-tolerant tent. These seem to be the same idea, but with much more usable space at the same weight (for more money.) They seem to suit my need perfectly, and be the ideal construction for a guy who’s not going to be pitching them above the treeline in winter anyway.

Why are they a “niche” design? Why don’t the major manufacturers (MSR/TNF/Sierra/Kelty/etc.) build the tunnel design?

Brian

You name it, I’ve used it. Biblers, Integral Designs MKIII, tarptents and they all have the same problem – they are heavier than a tarp and have less room. An 8×10 tarp + a BMW bivy is my preferred method of shelter. The only time I would use something else would be when I know I am heading into areas where:

a) It will be extremely wet and there will be ponding water in the campsite,
b) It will be near freezing and I want the comfort to sit in a tent to warm up without wind,
c) It will be extremely windy
d) There will be snowfall

a) – d) is what I call the my “niche”

I would also add that for very high snowfall and wind, only a four pole tent will do but personally, I don’t venture out into too many places like that.

A Golite Hex 3 + a BMW bivy would cope with b) – d) as well and is a lot lighter. I wish I had one of those.

This philosophy may be thrown out the window if you showed it to a non camping girlfirend though! I’d get a Nallo 3, marginally heavier but a lot roomier than a Nallo 2. This will make a BIG difference in the wet and will give you moderate 4 season use.

indeed my girlfriend would not approve of tarp sleeping… up here in Canadia, our bugs will leave a trail of blood running down your arm and our whiteouts will make slush run down your neck — both in July! If I don’t want to be disowned, I’ll bring a cocoon filled with the comforts of home.

Nallo III, you say? I looked at the Nallo II because of the Fibraplex pole option that saves 6 ounces, but I suppose that Fibraplex could make poles for any hoop-type tent without too much fuss. I’m six feet and an active sleeper; maybe I should consider getting myself room to thrash in?

I wish there were a place up here in the Great White North where we could go an *look* at these darned things…

Thanks again!
Brian

“indeed my girlfriend would not approve of tarp sleeping… up here in Canadia, our bugs will leave a trail of blood running down your arm”

That’s why you need the BMW bivy.

The Nallo 2 is OK, but it is not a super roomy 2 person tent. I have the Nallo 3GT which is HUGE for 2 people. This makes a big difference when you have to spend a day or two in it because of rain. A Nallo 2 would probably be fine if it didn’t rain too much, its all compromise, compromise. I figured the Nallo 3GT/2 is still lighter than a Akto so why not?

The Hilleberg site lists the minimum weight for the Nallo 3 GT as 5 lbs, 8 ozs and the minimum weight for an Akto as being 2 lbs, 14 ozs.

a bivvy sack to my girlfriend would probably be analogous in her mind to a body bag…I’m hoping to ease her into it slowly and not scar her on her first outing!

Thanks again for the info; it’s invaluable.

Brian

Verndal,

Yes, you are right the Akto is 46 oz and the Nallo 3 GT is 88 oz but the Nallo is a 2 person tent so that’s 44oz per person.

I'm experiencing exactly the same dilemma – as a UK backpacker we get the bugs and the (wet/windy) weather. I've narrowed my choice of tent down to 3: the Warmlite 2R, the Nallo 2 and the Terra Nova Laserlarge 1. Making a decision is driving me nuts as there is no right answer – but I suspect I won't go for the Warmlite (I'd like to as it's a small funky independent tent co!) as I can't see how a tent would work for me without a vestibule to store dirty boots and cook in, and a mesh door to keep insetcts out whilst venting. In my heart I want to make the Warmlite work for me, but my head says it won't!

Any thoughts on this would be welcome.

I've had extremely good luck getting people who don't hike to really like the experience a lot using the Sierra Designs Lightning tent. It's about 6-8 inches wider than the MSR Hubba Hubba so it doesn't feel nearly as clautrophibic (The Hubba Hubba has an hourglass shaped bottom that is narrow than it's specs say). It's also very easy to set-up, handles side-ways blowing rain and suprise snowfall (less than 1 foot per night) very well. The one door is slightly inconvenient, but not a big deal. The vestibule is big enough to store packs & shoes, but hard to cook under without propping the vestibule up with a trekking pole. The sides and ends are very steep, so all of the floor area is usable for reading while propped up on an elbow, etc. Kneeling while dressing is best done about 1/4 of the way away from the walls & ends though. (Although the pointy top does shed snow really well).

I wish it was lighter though – it weighs 4#'s (4.5 with stuff sack and stakes). It could also use a high vent to help keep it from becoming a sauna on hot, humid non-windy nights. It is only 84" long, so it's a little short for 6 foot tall people, or those who like to store gear near their feet.

For new hikers, room to move around without getting wet rubbing against wet walls, "Spider proof", and not too windy in cold weather seem to be key things to look for in a shelter.

As Pedro knows, we didn't like our WarmLite at all, even though it was roomier and lighter than our Nallo2. The lack of vestibule, poor ventilation and mesh around the perimeter of the floor did not suit us. We were mostly wet with condensation because, in warm weather when the bugs are out, you can't open the front door as there is no mesh. So we baked and steamed an aweful lot.

The Nallo2 has held up to gale-force winds, and is a very nice tent. I highly recommend you avoid the Fibraplex poles. We've had two of them break on us in calm, warm weather, and when they break they are like arrows or spears flying at high velocity.

One thing I have done to turn the Nallo into a true four season tent is to make a mesh/silnylon inner to use for three seasons, plus I added another vent at the back. A lot of work for sure, and it's a shame Hilleburg doesn't offer this kind of option (although they kindly supplied me with the toggles to complete the project). The other good thing about the Nallo is that you can pitch just the inner on hot dry days to help with venting while keeping the bugs at bay.

I agree, the Nallos are under vented.

Peter,
A lot depends on conditions. The Tgo challenge a walk across Scotland in May for 300 people is populated with solo walkers who mostly use Actos but more and more are using Laser Comps, pairs mostly use Nallos although one or 2 have Warmlite 2R and some squeeze 2 into a Laser.
I have a Nallo which for us is large and luxurous, and a Laser which at under 23 ounces per person is very light but a squeeze. We have used both tents in strong winds and snow in the Cairngorms admittedly not on mountain tops, and they survived. I did add the 4 missing storm guys to the Laser, I think this makes a lot of difference. If you are happy with 36 ounces per person the Nallo 2 is very good for British conditions. My newer Nallo has a closeable mesh end at the foot and you can lift the fly foot for ventilation. My friends older Nallo which I borrowed first did not, and was undervented. The Nallo is good in still air because it has a high and a low vent so the Chimney effect gives some ventilation with no wind. The Laser is not so good in complete stillness because it has 2 low vents, one at each end, so no chimney effect. As Petras says both these tents flap a lot and are more noisy in high winds than semigeodesic mountain tents. Do you want to carry the extra weight if you only are in these conditions occasionally?

A few points on the 2R:

– it's really not a double walled tent, it's a single walled tent with a liner that hangs from the ceiling, creating a dead air space. This helps control condensation in the winter by making the inner wall warmer than it otherwise would be.

– as noted, there's no vestibule. Open the door in the rain and you get soaked inside.

– the standard 2R has limited ventilation. Stephensons calls this chimney venting, as there is a limited opening at the foot, and another vent on the top, and the colder air is supposed to come in the foot and exit the top front. Unfortunately it doesn't work as well as real vents, although it does allow a warmer tent in the winter.

– for real ventilation order the 2R with full side vents. Basically, you can open up both sides of the tent for ventilation and still have bug protection.

I like the 2R for winter, as it's a huge tent for the weight, but don't use it in summer because of the limited ventilation and no vestibule space.

Thanks for your comments. It's great that there isn't an obvious answer cos all this research is quite fun!

I certainly want a bit more room and having carried a 20 year old Vango Hurricane Delta (or is it a Beta?!) so I know I can get lighter, but I do fancy some space. I really want the Warmlite 2R as it's funky, independently made etc, but I know the lack of a real vestibule is an issue for me. But then it's no different from single wall tents in terms of no vestibule is it?

I contacted the Warmlite people and they won't adapt the tent – they totally believe in their product – but they do have a 'dam' that separates the wet entrance area from the rest of the tent with a 3" wall! Not much but enough to separate dirty/wet from clean/dry I'd have thought. I reckon that the size of the tent is so good for it's weight, and that windows willl give the ventilation that is needed, that it might be worth a go. It wins on size (big) weight (v light) warmth and ventiltion (if the windows are included). But the lack of a vestibule still troubles me!! The manufactureres say that you can both cook and store in this area without effecting the rest of the tent.

Are there any Warmlite 2R users that have any comments on the practicability of the tent in wet conditions? Dirty boots, wet rucksack, cooking inside: is it really ok?

I recently sold my Warmlite 2R, but when I had it, I kept my wet stuff inside near the door with no problem. There's plenty of room, even with two people. I have never cooked inside any tent or in the vestibule of any tent, so I can't comment on how that would work. I prefer to huddle under trees or between rocks with an umbrella, which, incidentally, could also serve as a rain deflector for getting in and out of tents with no vestibules.

IF we were to keep our Warmlite 2RS, I would have put a zipper around one of the inner mesh windows. This would allow you to leave one of the window flaps up (with trekking poles or whatever), plus give you space to cook, store gear, and get in and out of the tent without soaking the tent. The shame is that Stephenson's won't offer this minor modification, so it's a risky DIY project if you screw it up. Still, it would make this a truly great tent, so would offering a breathable inner skin or mesh inner.

I use the 2R and the 3R and they are slightly different animals. The 2R is an alpine/mountain tent and has worked great in Washington Cascade summers and winters, be that as it may and as I have stated before, the single wall ends can be prone to condensation under some conditions but nothing that did not evaporate in the early morning hours or was not easy to wipe off. I have never had either of our tents get “soaked” getting in or out of them nor have I had a problem storing wet gear in Stephenson tents because I use sensible precautions learned long ago when we kept our gear in more traditional double walled tents. I have never had the urge to cook in the vestibule of any tent but I would think it would be a bit tight in a 2R.

As I stated, I have found the 2R to be an excellent four seasons alpine/mountain tent, when I hear complaints about the 2R or 3R it is usually in a different environment that does to fit the tent’s strengths.

Petra Hilleberg runs the North American office in Redmond, Wa … just outside Seattle.
They are open office hours and do set up for you and you can buy it there.
http://www.hilleberg.com/ContactUs.htm

I own a Nallo 2 GT and an Akto. I love them, I have plenty of room and more wind and snow resistance than I will ever need.

But for lightweight use I am looking into the Double Rainbow by Tarptent.

Ken

At the end of the day no tent is perfect, it's all about compromise but with extra windows or venting and the fact that in the last 20 years I've cooked in the tent twice means the Warmlite is where I'm off, and the weight and space on offer are excellent. I'll just have to change my habits and be careful with the lack of a vestibule – yes the space is there but not the separation, and that is where I might struggle.

But you can never have too many tents!

Not many Vango Hurricane still around Peter!

There is one in my attic somewhere. I think.

In the UK I cook in the vestibule all the time – wind, rain, midges all make it more comfortable.

You could also look at the Fortress 23 by TNF. I don't think it is available in America (WHY??), only in Europe.
http://www.thenorthface.com/opencms/opencms/tnf/gear.jsp?site=EU&model=AV9G&language=en

Caution: I haven't used this tent myself, but the design and specs look interesting.

Cheers

The Fortress looks aptly named. Be curious to see a head-to-head of popular tunnel tents.

Someone should mention to TNF that a website revamp is in order – by a different designer (or just about any highschool kid)!

Chris, yes, that's why I'm retiring the beast! Just out of interest what do you use as a light backpacking tent? I totally agree that a vestibule is important and hope that the warmlite will be capable of being used as a living space and a vestibule space.

TNF tents looks ace, but alas too heavy for my needs – I'm looking for one half that weight. And if you think TNF website looks dates have a look at the warmlite one!