Pak-Rifle Review

[Josh Leavitt]

The 17 may not really be "better" for larger game, the heavier bullet of the 22 more than makes up for not shooting as flat as a 17. Moose have been taken with a 22, and I dont see this happening with a 17.

[Robert Allen]

The photo shows the young man shooting at the water bottle on top of a stump. I've done stuff like this myself. What is not clear from the photo is if there's a hill immediately behind the trees/stump? If not, the idea of a .22 whizzing down range where you can't see if someone is hiking is problematic. Just an FYI for all concerned: know your backstop when shooting.

Regards,

Robert

[Sam Haraldson]

Robert, thank you for pointing out the safety elements necessary when shooting. Ryan and his son both take the safety of shooting very seriously and had chosen a spot for this target practice that would not put others into harms way.

[David Ure]

Can't carry this type of firearm in Canadian National or Provincial parks anyway. Interesting read but not on my radar screen.

[David Olsen]

Have you looked into 357 mag? They are offered on other
low pressure breakopen shotgun actions and would then be capable of taking larger
game and still be quiet, light and inexpensive to shoot.

You could shoot 38 special cowboy action cast bullets
for even gentler loads for grouse etc.

[Ryan Jordan]

Good observation – there actually was a tiny ravine just beyond the target, with a big hill just beyond that. It's close – probably only 30 yards beyond the target. We scouted the area really well, and were off trail and remote.

[Justin Gunn]

I noticed on the the pakrifle.com site that they are experimenting with a fishing pole extension complete with mini reel. Do we know if this is a viable alternative to carrying, say, a Tenkara rod? Seems like the weight of the extension/reel combo might tip the scales over a separate Tenkara rig, but curious to hear any thoughts on the subject.

[Josh Leavitt]

357/38 was looked at years ago, but I never tried it. I did chamber one of the very first rifles for .410 shotshells, which was very cool, but ultimatly did not work out. The issue lies in the way the action "pivots" open vs breaking like more conventional "hinge" type break actions. Also it would easily double the wieght.

[Josh Leavitt]

The fishing pole option will in no way replace a good Tenkara setup. Earlier this year in the wind rivers, I had both with me, and caught fish on both, the Tenkara setup out fished the rifle about 7:1. The Pak-rifle pole is meant as a sort of "back up" swiss army knife sort of add on.

[Chris Wood]

This is an excellent review of a very practical piece of lightweight and innovative backpacking equipment. Those with open minds will see this. The Others may not.

I definitely have one of these on my wish list, as up here in Alaska the free protien that nature supplies for you is nearly endless.

Thanks again for an excellent review of a very practical and innovative piece of lighweight backpacking gear.

[Gustav Bostrom]

I hunt Ptarmigan during winter and summer and I'm thinking of taking up Hazel grouse hunting in the backcountry as well. This is a very interesting alternative. However I think that the limited range and robustness of the Pak-rifle makes it a bit limited. It is often difficult to get that close to the Ptarmigans in winter. For hazel grouse in the forest it should probably be fine though. How much of rifle accuracy and range you are willing to sacrifice for weight savings is of course a matter of taste. I appreciate that Ryan makes it clear that this kind of rifle has a more limited range than a normal .22LR. If the main purpose of my trip would be hunting I would probably go for something heavier, like the Henry rifle:
http://www.henryrepeating.com/h002_survival.cfm
It would be interesting to hear if anyone has any experience of this rifle and how you could compare it to the Pak-rifle.

[Ryan Jordan]

I'm getting better at shooting the rifle since this review was completed, and have been able to shoot inside a 2" target at 50 yards with the peep sight easily, with the gun resting on my pack in the prone position. I'd be pretty comfortable using it for Ptarmigan in open country.

[Josh Leavitt]

The Pak-rifle is just as accurate as any full size 22 rifle, the limitation comes in the learning curve of shooting a light weight, unconventional rifle, this is easily overcome with practice.

The Pak-rifle is more "accurate" than an AR-7. The AR-7s front sight is mounted on the front of the barrel, and the rear sight is mounted at the back of the reciever. Normaly this would not cause too much of an accuracy issue, but the AR-7 is a take down rifle, by means of removing the barrel. When you take the barrel on and off this changes how the front and rear sights relate to each other, causing the point of impact to change. Also with the barrel being the take down point, with no fore arm, preasure applied to the barrel of an AR-7, when aiming, also changes the relationship of the front and rear sights, changing the point of impact. Same goes for mounting a scope on an AR-7, the scope mounts to the recieve, independent of the barrel. All of these conditions are additionally agravated on Henry's AR-7s that have plastic barrels, with steel liners.

The Pak-Rifle's sights and/or scope mount stay with the barrel, and maintain alignment to the barrel, wether taken down or assembled.

Also you can pack 2, higher quality, more accurate, scoped Pak-Rifles for the same weight of an unscoped, AR-7.

I've taken marmots at 100yds with a scoped Pak-Rifle many times.

[Dwn Ptrl]

Re: moderation. Makes sense, so no worries on my end about removing the earlier posts (including mine). Lord knows that 'debate' would spiral out of control.

Back to the gun/review: Really excited to see this product! Also nice to hear Josh's thoughts, especially in comparison to the AR-7 and the sights issue with each weapon.

I'll agree it's pricey, and also share the concerns about the carbon fiber (sorry, Josh…I ride steel bicycles only. Can't get me on that carbon fiber train yet!). Would accept increased weight if those CF parts were swapped for metal…or testing was shown regarding this particular CF's strength.

All that aside, I'm highly interested in this weapon. Especially as a lifelong hunter who subscribes to the idea of not owning more weapons than I can carry at one time…dang! This little monster is going to be hard to resist!

[Josh Leavitt]

When I built the first PR ~12 yrs ago, the barrel was carbon fiber over steel, with a rear stock that was aluminum. Over the years the rear stock has been aluminum tube of various ODs and IDs, as well as carbon fiber, I have broke them all. One of the most dramatic being when I dropped my pack, with PR attached, ~15' off a ledge. The first pack we dropped, stopped on the ledge below, but my pack continued down another 100'+.

The barrel has been through several revisions, with both aluminum and CF outer tubes, non of these have ever broke, even when the scope was sheared off the rifle. The first reason the rear stock is CF is that it matches the barrel, but more importantly, it doesnt freeze your cheek in the cold weather like aluminum does. Oh and it sounds cool ;-)

[Ken Thompson]

Legal in California? Had problems with my Marlin Papoose=assault rifle.

[Jason Brinkman]

Wow. I was both surprised and pleased to see this product and the review of it. Great work Josh! And good article Ryan. Glad to see somebody innovating in this arena.

A few random comments for you:

1. The action of this rifle is very clever in its utilization of the breakdown joint for loading/unloading and disassembly. Love that feature.

2. I would be interested in seeing a model that has a folding or removable butt stock. For a removable buttstock option, perhaps the carbon rod could be made to simply friction fit/remove from the pistol grip? Or secured with a hand removable friction pin? This would be an easy way to accomplish one of Ryan's suggested modifications.

3. I would really prefer a basic trigger guard. Could just be a bent piece of round stock like the trigger appears to be made from, but something to prevent snagging when packed, bending if dropped, etc. would be highly desirable.

4. Suggestions for .17 HMR, 38/.357, .410, 22MAG, .223, etc. are all interesting, but I think you made the right choice in selecting .22LR. Ammo is cheap and ubiquitous and it perfectly matches the best uses for a rifle of this character. If you ever branch out, however, I have some suggestions for an lightweight .410 shot/slug gun.

Again, great work and thanks for bringing this product forward!

[Luke Schmidt]

Since Ryan seems to like unsupported long distance hikes I wonder if there's a "hunt/fish as you go" long range trip planned. I wonder how this would work, hunting slows you down a bit but it does lighten food weight. I guess you could take layover days or afternoons off to forage a bit of food.
I think the idea of finding food as you go, while not practical for a lot of us is very interesting and adds to my overall knowledge of backcountry travel. I'd personally like to learn more about edible plants at some point.
I personally like the idea of this being monitered to keep things on track. If I want to debate all the side issues (self defense etc) I'd do it somewhere else.

[Josh Leavitt]

Ken

We have registered with the state of CA for FFL to FFL transfer purposes, so we are good to ship to CA. We have someone looking into wether there will be any other hoops to jump through. Since it is a single shot, it should not be a problem, as far as we know right know, were good for CA.

[Josh Leavitt]

Jason

Thanks, I have not read the review, so I'm not sure about Ryans recomendations, but there are some things in the works for the stock, probably options.

The trigger is rounded and smoothed to help reduce snagging, works pretty good in that regard. Breaking or bending a trigger would be very difficult to accomplish, its pretty stout and made out of stainless steel.

[Author]

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