PLB’s, SPOTS vs. Cutting the Cord

"A PLB won't summon help if you can't activate it or
can't afford it, or forget it, or it runs out of
batteries, or you are afraid to use it soon enough
because you're worried about rescue fees or fines."

You forgot losing it, dropping it in a lake, running over it in the parking lot at TH……

"I thought that sounded like pushing the potential cost of his risk-taking onto SAR/the taxpayers and it seemed less responsible to me than cutting back on the risky stuff."

With, or without, activating a PLB, SAR is going to attempt to rescue/body bag anyone reported missing. It's their mission and raison d'etre, simple as that. All a PLB(activated) does is make their job easier and decrease their potential level of risk.

If you're concerned about "pushing the potential cost of risk-taking onto SAR/taxpayers" the answer is pretty straightforward: DON'T HIKE!

Just lost my SPOT about a week into a month long trek. Unfortunately it wasn't tracking at the time. These things are way too fun! The new improved model Is on route. People back home get hooked. Like watching you crawl along. Cheap fun fix.

Been following this thread for a while with interest.

I have been hiking solo for several decades without any of these devices. They weren't available when my kids were small. The family wasn't frightened about my travels, as they knew I was careful and prepared. I always leave itineraries and instructions in case I am late returning. I don't push myself to limits… that is pushing myself to a situation where I may lose control. Of course accidents do happen, and I try to be ready should one happen. But just like a car accident; there are those 1 in a million accidents that no prepration can forsee. I am aware of that.

What I don't like about the current technology is that we, as a society, have to be electronically connected to each other and everything… 24 hour news, people tied to cell phones all day and night, etc. Boy, if you want to tick me off, send me a text message. You won't do it a 2nd time :). I use technology in my job, and try to minimize it during my personal time. It drives upper management crazy that I am the only manager they cannot reach when on vacation. If someone insists I be available while on vacation, I just send them a topo map and tell them about where I will be, and that cell phone reception is non-existant. But they are more than welcome to hike in if they feel the need. Interestingly, I am the only manager they just accept will not be available at their beckoned call or whim. Because of this, they have to be better at their job, as I will not be available to bail them out.

I can afford a PBL, SPOT, sat-phone, etc. but just can't stand the idea of hauling one along. That also goes for GPS units and iPods.

Just my 2 cents.

Right on Nick! All the electronics were supposed to be a convenience, not a necessity.

Great thoughts Nick — there's something refreshing about telling folks at work I will be unreachable by cell phone or e-mail…

With you Nick!

Cheers

"Because of this, they have to be better at their job"

I know you are referring to your manager(s), Nick, but it also means that SAR will also have to be better at their jobs and, potentially, spend more time, effort, and taxpayers' money, not to mention incurring more risk, if you go missing. I say this because they WILL come looking for you, whether you like it or not, if your family reports you missing. PLB's, IMO, fall into a separate category from cell phones, sat phonea, SPOT's, and the like. They are not designed with the capability of maintaining regular contact with the outside world, but are intended to be used only in case of dire emergency when self rescue measures have proven futile or impossible. They are for the benefit of the rescuers almost as much as the rescu-ee. For the record, I am was as aghast as anybody at the dawning of the age of "continuous partial attention" announced several years ago by Chairman Bill at a tech conference, to great fanfare. I don't own a cell phone or GPS and, like you, totally reject the idea of being continuously available at the pleasure of anyone, my wife included. I didn't carry a PLB for years after they became available, but finally relented after a period of reflection on what a rescue situation entailed for SAR,as well as for my wife's peace of mind as we have grown older. It has made absolutely no difference in the level of risk I am willing to incur on trips, frequently solo and almost always with significant off trail sections. I hike as if the PLB were not there because, if I ever had to use it, it would mean I had screwed up big time and would have to answer to myself ever after for inflicting grievous self injury and putting a lot of other people to a lot of trouble, perhaps exposing them to serious risk in the process. It's not a crutch or an excuse to indulge in behavior beyond my capabilities. For me, a PLB is part of my first aid kit and like most articles therein, has never been used and hopefully never will be. My 2 cents.

I fully understand and agree with the argument about cutting off the cell phone and emails so you're work can't get you.
As far as my work is concerned, I don't have a cell phone or personal email.

But to argue that it is somehow the same as carrying a PLB is a false equivalent.

…

Wonder if the real value is in the "OK" messages. May prevent someone from reporting you as missing. (The flipside — family/friends may get addicted and become concerned when they don't get an "OK".) Many times search and rescue is activated by another individual. Yes and the tracking of course. It's way too fun. And it's cute. And it may or may not be useful in an emergency. I think most people (not necessarily this forum) would fault you more for NOT carrying such a device.

Many of us didn't grow up with bike helmets and cell phones and we lived to tell about it. This however does not mean that helmets and cell phones are bad.

One could argue that the latest coated fabrics also detract from the backcountry experience. What about freeze dried foods?

No man is an island and it takes a village. And all that. Romantic notions aside, when you go into the backcountry you are not leaving "civilization". Complete fantasy.

PS. Kindle is awesome. Great battery life. Carry a library and pdf files for the weight of a paperback. Sorry folks ;)

Nick,

You made me smile, thanks!

After working 12 to 16 hours every day for almost 6 months, a friend invited me on a wilderness canoe trip. I took him up on that offer and quickly found myself telling the Vice President, "Call the ranger station and ask for a fly over. We have a green tent and red canoe. Cell phones do not work".

It was most liberating. Soon after the trip I quit my job and began visiting the wilderness yearly.

Yep, we are into the latest BPing technolgoy as it relates to Light.

No GPS that I know of weighs less than my compass and topo map(s). The rest is additonal weight I do not need to carry.

Lets separate mountaineering activities from backpacking. I do see the benefit for "mountaineers."

The majority (not all) of the BPing rescues I read about are due to stupid or ill-prepared people. I have been backpacking for 40+ years, and almost always solo. Not saying an accident I can't be prepared for, won't happen. But I try to stack the odds in my favor. And I am probably not as "proficient" as many others here on the forum. But I know my limits and do not put myself at "risk."

I remarried 7 years ago. My wife had never done any outdoor activities and she has no interest in BPing at all. However, we do camp (tent trailer) and/or hike nearly every weekend, if I am not out solo. At first she was so against the solo BPing. But after several outings with me, and observing how I prepare for each BPing trip, she is not worried at all when I go BPing. She does enjoy reviewing the maps as I plan each trip. She does roll her eyes as I weigh items and ponder of different combinations/pieces of equipment. As a matter of fact, she surprised me a couple weeks ago with a GG Mariposa Plus for my birthday.

My first wife didn't worry either, and now that our colleged-age son is into BPing, she is not worried for him, as I have been teaching and buying him gear.

Bottom line…

This is one of those topics that no one is going to "win." If you feel the need for a SPOT, GPS, Phone, etc. then, by all means, bring it along. If I run into on the trail, I will not think any less about you as a person. But these items may not help you if you are not educated and prepared.

I am puzzled. Why would a heart attack during "mountaineering" be any different than a heart attack during "backpacking" in regard to the technology in question? How do you define "mountaineering"? Certainly there is some overlap.

There are plenty of people who drive without seat belts and who ride without helmets and most of them do just fine. Still, I prefer to wear a seat belt and a helmet. Does wearing a seat belt or a helmet or carrying a Spot increase one's risk tolerance? Think this is a weak argument. Safety measures may or may not affect the risk one is willing to bear. Probably depends on numerous indeterminate factors.

As for Spot. It does more than summon help. It sends OKs and it tracks. Good fun.

'Good fun' to me is nobody knowing where i am for a while. I don't want anyone tracking me. I don't want/need to know, or care, if Mrs. Jones next door has new curtains, or if a golfers wife has been practising her putting with the family car.
Why waste a 100 words when 1 will do.
Sometimes the greatest sound is silence.

"Great thoughts Nick — there's something refreshing about telling folks at work I will be unreachable by cell phone or e-mail…"

I tell my management at work the same thing. I still bring my cell with me when I backpack. The pros and cons on this thread seem to indicate that if you bring your cell phone, you must answer it. Of course, you don't.

I bring my cell with me backpacking for ME, not for THEM. My cell phone, an iPhone, is my planetarium, my eReader, my game machine, my music player, my GPS to get me to the trailhead, my authority on tying various knots, my unit converter, and more. Talk about multi-use lightweight gear!

So my cell phone does not keep me tied to the office, or tied to family and friends, or tied to anything really. If I happen to be in an area where I get cell reception, I don't answer my phone. To me it's that simple.

As I've said in a few other posts, doesn't make me right, just makes it right for me. ;-)

Nick, you're my hero. That's exactly how I feel about this "always connected" thing. I am not interested in it, either.

As for heart attacks in the backcountry…You really think SAR is gonna help you with that? If you need CPR, you're gonna die. Not much you can do about it.

If you do carry a SPOT, my advice is unless your femur is sticking out of your thigh (or equivalent), don't push the button.

Well, there are heart attacks that don't require CPR but which incapacitate and also benefit from timely rescue. There are strokes that leave one side paralyzed. There are all manner of things that while unlikely, are deucedly inconvenient if you happen to be alone in the wilderness. I don't find that it detracts from the isolation. Like my knife and other equipment, the PLB is just there if I need it.

I guess I mirror Nick in that I don't think less of anyone who doesn't carry a PLB, but I always take mine.

As for a GPS not being lighter than a map and a compass, I think one needs to consider what other things one is carrying. My GPS is also my phone, my mp3 player, my topo maps, my journal, my books, my ThruHiker's companion, my gear checklist, my altimeter, my backup flashlight and it would also be my camera if the camera didn't suck, but they're getting better all the time, so that'll probably change with the next iteration.

I know there are plenty of minimalists who just carry the map and the compass, if that, but I'd carry the kitchen sink if it was light enough. I'm into ultralight backpacking so I can have a few luxuries without killing myself.

I don't understand why anyone thinks that carrying a spot (or cell phone for that matter) forces you to be connected to anything. Leave the cell phone off unless/until you WANT to be connected. Don't push any buttons on the spot until you WANT to.

No matter how good you are, you can have an accident, or even get lost! ;-)

Keith is correct re: heart attacks. While sooner is better, revascularization following MI can be beneficial for many hours after the acute event. Also at issue, is environmental exposure following incapacitation.

I am still trying to tease out an earlier poster's claim that "mountaineering" is different from "backpacking" in terms of the un/desirability of carrying a SPOT.

Personally, I find value in tracking and OK messages. Bloody cool.

In regards to GPS vs. map and compass, it's not either or. It's map and compass vs. map and compass and GPS.

I am curious as to whether these SPOT critics carry avalanche transceivers. Do you not consider this a "cord"?

Still intrigued by this romantic notion of the wilderness travel.

Very well put Larry

"I am still trying to tease out an earlier poster's claim that "mountaineering" is different from "backpacking" in terms of the un/desirability of carrying a SPOT."

Okay, I'll bite, since I am stuck at home with the flu :)

To me, Mountaineering is about year-round mountain climbing. More specifically, technical climbing that requires specialized gear and is often done in inaccessible areas and inclimate weather. Also, the frequency of mountaineering injuries and even death is probably signifcantly higher than for general lightweight backpacking. I have no facts and have never researched it. However, I would venture to guess that the odds of serious injury or becoming lost is much higher when engaged in mountaineering activities. How often do you hear quotes from mountaineers that each year they lose a friend to the mountain? I don't hear many UL Backpackers talking about their lost friends.

So… mountaineering is inherently more dangerous than backpacking, IMO.

We can fret over many, many things and fill up our packs with stuff, just in case it happens. Or we can take a minimum amount of stuff that will handle 99% of what might happen. That 1% I am not going to worry about. And hopefully, by contanstly working on my skills and awareness I can reduce that 1% to .0001%. :)

Oh and, since I am pushing 60, I should be more worried about a heart attack that most, right? I just can't clutter my life and head with "what ifs."

Peace.

"So… mountaineering is inherently more dangerous than backpacking, IMO."

That is far out of the realm of opinion, solidly in the realm of fact.

Consider this: If you hit the button without a solid reason you're probably going to end up liable for the cost of your rescue. With a couple 10 grand of expenses possible you probably won't hit the button unless it's life or death. Being willing to die alone in the woods for a some bizarre sense of self reliance is retarded.

I think many people here are missing the salient point that has been made by several posters:

IT KEEPS THE WIFE HAPPY.

That, alone, is worth a few ounces…