MLD TrailStar thread.

[Richard D.]

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this shelter and would like to consolidate some observations and get some feedback from people who have used it in the wild:

The MLD Trailstar:

This is a very interesting shelter, potentially combining the advantages of both a tent and a tarp in a single shelter. It can be pitched with 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 edges flush or nearly flush to the ground depending on the conditions. That's a great deal of versatility.

I have a bunch of random questions about the Trailstar for those who've used it.

1) If you take any two contiguous corners and connect them, then you have a 4-sided pyramid with 7' sides and 49 sq. feet of floor space versus 8.75' x 5' or 44 sq. feet for the MLD duomid. Has anyone tried this? What's the corresponding center pole height for such a configuration when pitched flush to the ground?

(this might be a good pitch for shedding nighttime snow for 1 person sleeping diagonally or 2 small people… plus, you can slip in and out through the slit formed by the gathered side)

2) Would there be any difficulties sticking two trekking poles in the top to allow a couple to sleep directly in the center of the Trailstar? i.e. the poles would look like a " / " Would you have to tie your poles together first to be able to pitch it like this?

3) Could anyone comment on using the Trailstar in winter conditions? How did you pitch it and how well did it function?

4) One potential downfall of the Trailstar is condensation on the fabric getting you all wet when you've got all sides pitched to the ground and stick your hand out to loosen the external linelock in order to get out. Has anyone had any issues with this?

5) Could the Trailstar be suspended from a branch? Does it have anything on top allowing it to be hung?

Finally, I am interested in learning about any particular issues or advantages of the Trailstar.

[David Chenault]

Rick, as you likely know I posted some thoughts in a thread last week. They're still kicking around somewhere.

As for your questions:

1) Interesting thought. Not sure how you'd secure the resultant flap, and I've never seen the need to do it, but worth experimenting with. It points towards the flexibility of the design.

2) Theoretically yes. They'd have to be pretty long poles at a pretty severe angle, and I'm not sure how stable that would be. A more productive way to let two snuggle would be one pole angled a bit. That would leave enough room for my wife and I to sleep side by side. The peak hang loop, with a handy branch, would give two or even three plenty of room.

3)Haven't had it out under a significant snow fall yet. That should change pretty soon. I've had it in gusts to around 25 or so. I had three corners into the winds pitched to the ground, the two other corners elevated perhaps 6 inches, and the mid point between those two corners elevated 2.5 feet and guyed straight out to a tree. The wind was predictable, and no blowing snow bothered me that night.

4) Haven't pitched it full to the ground yet, but it would likely be an issue in the morning. You'd probably want to stuff the bag and suit up in such a situation.

Overall I'm very pleased with the design. With careful site selection, and the fact that I don't hike in the rainforest, I can't envision needing to pitch it flush on all corners during the conditions and seasons when I'd use it. For full on winter conditions I'll likely bring my Firstlight.

[Richard D.]

I'm going to paste in links to past discussions of the Trailstar for reference:

1) initial questions

2) review: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/reviews/display_reviews?forum_thread_id=21102&cat=Shelters%20-%20Tarps%20%26%20Floorless&cid=33

3) center pole

4) review and discussion
(thanks, Dave — I had somehow missed this thread!)

[liang kong]

My experience with trailstar is that UL gears can be heavy duty.
The 2nd picture was shot in the mid-night,after a very heavy snow,my leki trekking pole as the central pole broke down,but the tarp was still in excellent condition.

[Richard D.]

Wow, Liang, that's an exciting use of the Trailstar. That might have been a situation where connecting 2 adjacent corners of the pentagon would have created a steeper-wallled pyramid that would have shed snow better, but given you a little less sleeping space underneath the tarp.

Has anyone been in conditions where they wished the Trailstar had tie-outs mid-way up the sides of the shelter?

[liang kong]

Actually 1st and 2nd pictures we dig a snow cave under the tarp,at that time it is very hard to find a better camp site for 3 men in that attitude with high wind.
As you see in the 3rd picture we tried another way to set up it as you said make it steeper.

[David Chenault]

Getting squished by your tarp is no fun.

How exactly did your trekking pole fail?

[liang kong]

The altitude here is about 4700m.The weather is really suck,it was snowy all day.
And the tarp is not steep enough so snow accumulated very fast,but I and my mates were too tired to get rid of the snow.
So in the mid night my trekking poles broke down.
It's a leki,and I bought it about 2 years ago,really hard used.

[David Ure]

If you think you need to shed snow, buy a Mid. Quite frankly, the TrailStar was never meant for this type of weather so there really is no determination of the limitation of the product. That was passed long ago. I am just happy no one suffocated.

[Richard D.]

So, here's a follow-up to the use of the pentagonal Trailstar as a 4-sided pyramid.

To connect two adjacent corners, you would string a line through two linelocks at once, but only the top one would lock the line, i.e. you'd be able to loosen the top linelock and the bottom one would loosen by default.

As mentioned, the resulting mid would be 7 x 7 – kind of a tight sqeeze for 1 or 2 people unless sleeping semi-diagonally. The peak should be 4.5' tall, or 54 inches (according to my calculations — I don't yet have the Trailstar). Comparing that to the dimensions of the MLD Duomid (8.9' Long X 5' Wide X 58" tall) we can see that the resulting mid would have, on the whole, slightly steeper walls than the Duomid. That would make it appropriate for the same "moderate snow loads" as the Duomid.

The flap that results from gathering one full side of the Trailstar to form a mid would probably best be rolled up and clipped on the inside of the shelter on the side that is away from the wind. To get in and out of the mid, you would unclip the flap, stick your hand out, loosen the linelock a bit, and step out through the flap. Shouldn't be too hard.

Furthermore, the square base could be turned into a diamond shape ( <> ), with three corners on the ground and one (the one with the gathered flap) slightly in the air. This would create a longer sleeping space adequate for one person, assuming the center pole is made of two poles in / or a single one moved to the side (the Ti-Goat 3-section extra-long pole trick…).

Another option yet is to take the basic square-shaped base and press 2 of the sides in, creating a 5 x 7 based and two low side entrances. The resulting shelter height would be 62'', with steep walls everywhere for excellent snow shedding, but less than optimal wind shedding. The side entrances would be roughly 2' high and would have a slight overhang.

Now we are getting into pitch modifications for any square-base mid shelter. The only structural weakness of the Trailstar used this way vs. a regular mid is the gathered flap which means that one of the four sides is not absolutely tight in the horizontal direction. If getting in and out of the shelter through the flap is unnecessary or undesired, then the mid-point tie-out on the gathered edge can be tied out outside of the shelter, which could add a bit of strength. Also, 2 inside ceiling hooks on the side seams could be carabined together…

Bungee side-panel tieouts similar to those on the supermid would be helpful for winter use.

As you can see, there are a lot of shapes to try out with the Trailstar, and I think it it could be used as an adequate one-person winter shelter for moderate snowfall.

[Richard D.]

I got my new Trailstar in the mail today and tried a few different setups, including the one described in the previous post.

Turns out all the theory I wrote about above is completely accurate. Get a Trailstar, and you've effectively got yourself a fully enclosed 7×7 Duomid with walls steep enough to shed snow well. Entering and exiting through the flap is not difficult, but you may want to wipe off some condensation around the entrance before doing so. Using a small carabiner to connect the two hanging clips halfway up the seams of the connected corners will help hold the tension on that side of the pyramid. You'd undo the carabiner to exit.

With no top vent, though, you sure wouldn't want to cook inside the mid.

There is enough room inside for two people sleeping diagonally. I'm 6'3'', and that's about the height limit. It's likely part of the foot end of my sleeping bag or bivy sack would be touching the wall.

[Anonymous]

Here is another vote for a Mid. The Hex (Shangra La 3) has great pitch for shedding snow and the height is adjustable to allow taller folks to stretch out somewhat.

[Richard D.]

"Trailstar as mid" picture:

Good tension on all sides with ample space inside for 1 or 2 people.

Field testing is imminent…

Now, here's how we can use 2 poles to allow a couple to sleep together. These are Titanium Goat longs (roughly 140 cm max):

Most practical pitch for most scenarios:

[David Lutz]

Super cool pitch as the Mid……but let me ask some questions……just trying to learn more…….

How do you get in and out?

How do you vent to avoid condensation?

Is there enough air exchange in there to breathe ok?

I apologize in advance if these are dopy questions….

[Richard D.]

The slit is wide enough to step in and out fairly easily. Halfway down the seams of each of the 5 sides are hooks, and two of these can be connected with a carabiner. The best way to secure the flap is probably to roll it up on the inside and secure it with the carabiner.

Not much venting, but you can pitch it slightly above ground. That's where most air exchange will be going on anyway. I can't image that breathing would ever be a problem. Condensation would probably be a problem, but I understand this is an issue for any closed mid design. You'd want to get a good tight pitch before going in for the night.

[Gordon Towne]

Wow, both of those are very creative and interesting implementations. Two quick questions on the dimensions:

1) In the setup that you have with the trekking poles forming a V-shape, what is the width of the groundcloth in the photo? Do you feel like this is the absolute most extreme angle at which those poles could be pitched out and remain stable, or could they go further?

2) In the pseudo-mid setup, did the peak height end up being around 54" in practice as you were expecting?

[BlackHatGuy]

I recently got a spinntex Trailstar and set it up in the yard for kicks (haven't had it in the field yet, probably won't til spring since I just bought a DuoMid and still have a SpeedMid (which I've used) and an Akto (which I haven't) for my winter camping.)

But anyway, I pitched the Trailstar with one pole at a kant for more mid room, and it seemed a taut pitch that way, so you may not need two poles for enough room for a double-sleeping arrangement.

[Richard D.]

Answers:

1) That is a 2-person Heetsheets emergency blanket. Its width is 56 inches. The effective width there is about 48 inches. My poles are extended to about 137 cm in the photo.

2) Yes, nearly exactly.

>> "But anyway, I pitched the Trailstar with one pole at a kant for more mid room, and it seemed a taut pitch that way, so you may not need two poles for enough room for a double-sleeping arrangement."

I agree. I could see that would work for most weather conditions, too. In windy and rainy conditions being in the center is probably preferable.

[Steven McAllister]

According to Ron, adding extra tie-outs is an option when ordering, for a few extra $. At least it is for the SpeedMid so I'm assuming for the TrilStar as well.

It might add more comfort to be able tie-off the walls if you think you are going to be in a lot of treeless exposed areas?

The TrailStar is pretty low profile so it wouldn't be necessary, but the walls can bow in and flap a bit in high winds like any shelter without mid wall tie-ous.

[Barrie Grieve]

Hi,
If you check out my previous posts on this forum and check youtube for Trailstar by me you'll see it can handle high winds pretty well (first vid), I've used it in anger a few times now and I cant praise it enough, haven't used in snow yet (Scotland without snow sucks ;-)

Yours,
Barrie

[Adam Kilpatrick]

I've commented on previous threads on my experience with trailstar, but I agree with most of the guys that have used it on here; its pretty bomber. I haven't used it in snow, but have used it in some pretty rough winds (inc two nights with min speed of 60kph, gusting well over 100) and it fares very well.

Getting the pitch right helps. I usually use a stick or tree or something to raise one corner and keep the rest close to the ground. I find that works well for me. I use the standard MLD CF pole that you can order with it. A trekking pole would be more versatile and make pitching easier…a few extra cm or so on that pole would be handy, and you could easily adjust the tension by raising the pole.

When its really wet and humid, it builds up condensation underneath, as you'd expect…the normal raising, etc, techniques of mids and other tarps apply. I personally don't care about condensation so it doesnt bother me.

I recently completed a ten day tour on my recumbent trike, and carried the trailstar. I used it on 3 nights as the weather was wet at the end (despite the Aus summer). The first night it was quite windy, probably around 40kph. I didn't have any trouble at all pitching it by myself in the wind. Which is quite different to when I first used it, which was by myself in windy conditions in the desert. Practise and technique helps a lot.

Whether by myself or with a mate, I peg out three adjacent seam corners first, on the wind side. I then get underneath and emplace the centre pole. While doing that I maintain a bit of tension on one of the remaining two seams, and keep that tension while I crawl back out. I then peg that seam's corner to the ground. With four out like that it is quite stable. The fifth corner I use a couple of metres of guy line to tie out to a tree or stick+groundpeg or my recumbent trike.

This shelter is my go-to for now. That will change on a big trike tour a mate and I have planned for later this year (and well into next year) but only because we want solo shelters (though this works great as a solo) that are more freestanding and inherently insect resistant. We'll sacrifice weight, room, some weather resistance, and whole swagfull of beauty and class to do so. Tough decision.

[Jeffs Eleven]

I saw richard used two poles under the trailstar. Does anyone know (or think) that the duo innernet could be used in this set up?

[Greg Mihalik]

You mean like this?

This image is from the MLD site.

[Jeffs Eleven]

yeah, I am just curious if it makes the trailstar too high during storms, or whatever? (
Never Tarped but wanting to try)

[David Ure]

No the Inner net will not work under the Trailstar. Just get one of MLD's Mids if you need the inner.

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