Sep 29, 2009 at 2:27 pm #1239751
Companion forum thread to:Sep 29, 2009 at 9:30 pm #1531646
This reminds me of Bill Gates trying to re-invent the Apple Operating System and calling it "Windows".
Yes, that is a negative comment.Sep 29, 2009 at 9:56 pm #1531648
Well , Steve Jobs and Co "re-invented" the Xerox Alto…
FrancoSep 29, 2009 at 11:30 pm #1531662
Sorry Roger no disrespect intended but I share Bill's sentiment over this latest installment of make your own gear.
The MYO Titanium Trowel has been done before and in my opinion done better
Please take a second look at Bill Fornshell and Eric Nobles contribution they elevated the lowly scoop into a piece of artSep 29, 2009 at 11:44 pm #1531665
> Bill Fornshell and Eric Nobles … they elevated the lowly scoop into a piece of art
Oh, I entirely agree. In fact, it was almost certainly their efforts which made me think of making my version. But I wanted something slightly different.
When the handle is simple, as in Bill's elegant design, the whole thing can twist in a sort of spiral manner. And the handle (even when dipped) can be a bit rough to hold if you really have to hack at the ground. Maybe our soil is a bit harder than Bill's – 'hack' (dagger fashion) is the operative word. I wanted a handle which was more 3-D and solid.
In fact, one could say that it is only in the handle region that my design differs. True enough. But having tried both sorts of handles on our soil, I find the solid handle much easier to use in the field.
CheersSep 30, 2009 at 3:52 am #1531684
Roger, why waste a few days making your trowel?
Seems like a lot of hard work in the workshop when you could be out hiking.
For years I have used a 9 inch aluminium alloy snow peg that weighs 30 grams and it has a dual use as a tent peg in case I need to pitch my tarp in a sandy place.
I bet the titanium was expensive, not to mention your valuable time to make the trowel.
(fellow) Aussie Dave
Canberra AustraliaSep 30, 2009 at 4:24 am #1531688
Borrowing from another poster –
Condolences.Sep 30, 2009 at 5:14 am #1531690
– -K.T.- –Participant
I'll stick with my Montbell. Only a half ounce heavier and $8. Readily available. And I have to agree this has been done already, long ago. But thanks for including standard weights and measures.Sep 30, 2009 at 5:44 am #1531696
@cameronLocale: Idaho Falls
Personally I don't care if its been done before, I don't have time to search through thousands of old threads so I'm glad good ideas get published twice.
Actually that sounds like a cool "rainy day" project. Personally I hate trying to dig with my current trowel so this is something I'll have to check out. Thanks for the detailed instructions.
LukeSep 30, 2009 at 5:53 am #1531697
@herman666Locale: Northern Virginia
Some of these replies seem to be little more than gratuitous sniping. Take:
"The MYO Titanium Trowel has been done before and in my opinion done better"
Maybe they should say what better is. Prettier? My point being that clearly, no reader has had time to fabricate both trowels and make an in-depth comparison.Sep 30, 2009 at 6:51 am #1531707
@arichardson6Locale: North East
How is this anything like the apple-window's anecdote? Seriously, this is a trowel. Not exactly the kind of design that sees radical change very often. If anything, the trowel that Bill made (in the referenced thread, did he make others?) is much more of a copy/ripoff than this one. It uses thinner titanium and then had some extra engineering for strength. Hardly unique in either regard. I find it ironic that you made the comment that you did Bill. How is your design any less of a "Bill Gates" move?
Roger's trowel, much like Bills, uses some engineering to overcome an issue that Roger saw with the handles of current titanium trowels. His solution, in my opinion, probably works better than what Bill did. I think it would be more comfortable to hold and much less likely to twist or crease. I think using the same physics behind the design of shovels is a neat idea and that it was well implemented. I really don't get how this trowel is more of a copy than what anyone else has done. Is it because he used hose clamps for shaping like Eric did? Eric's trowel in that same thread is a complete rip off of the montbell design so yeah..
If anything, I like the PVC trowel in the referenced thread. I think I might make one of those! Thanks Red!Sep 30, 2009 at 8:03 am #1531733
I'm not sure whether I'll make a Ti potty trowel, but I really appreciate the details about working Ti and designing to avoid failure. Good article!Sep 30, 2009 at 10:01 am #1531769
@redyetiLocale: South Eastern UK
I agree the handle has got to be an improvement. I used a titanium MSR Blizzard Stake for ages but even wrapped in gaffer tape the handle was awkward in hard soil.
So I now copy another of Roger's ideas – I use a cut-down Coghlans potty trowel since that has a far more comfy handle.
Besides, these MYOG articles are surely as much about inspiration and information on working with the materials as they are purely for slavishly following.Sep 30, 2009 at 12:12 pm #1531820
I never claimed to design the Ti trowel I made. I said I tried to buy one of the Montbell Trowels and they were out of stock. I had a scrap piece of Titanium left over from some other project and used the Montbell design and just pounded out one like it for myself.
I guess it was to bad I did not design my trowel. If I had I am sure someone would have taken the design and put them into production.
BillSep 30, 2009 at 12:24 pm #1531827
@arichardson6Locale: North East
Yeah, you definitely made clear why you started your design, I was simply wondering why you think what Roger did deserved the comment you made.
Heh, Bill, you do make good designs! :-)Sep 30, 2009 at 2:23 pm #1531871
For the time Roger spent I would pay to watch / read about how he makes one of his tents.
Hey wait, I am paying, but no tent.
Roger has a really great tent design but I think I would need to watch it being made before I would try to do something like it.Sep 30, 2009 at 3:21 pm #1531891
Tough crowd in this thread.Sep 30, 2009 at 3:23 pm #1531895
> why waste a few days making your trowel?
Well, that would be a fair comment, but I think is started after lunch and had finished by tea time. I put 4 hours as the time to make, including making up the pipe former. To make another one would take much less than 1 hour.
And it was fun.
CheersSep 30, 2009 at 3:25 pm #1531896
> I would pay to watch / read about how he makes one of his tents.
Ah, Bill – that might take a small book, not a short MYOG article! The development work took me years.
Maybe one day.
CheersSep 30, 2009 at 4:15 pm #1531922
I expect I would buy the book or maybe a DVD.Sep 30, 2009 at 5:31 pm #1531956
I don't understand the negativity in the comments here either. But it seems to be smoothing over now.
For the record, Roger's articles were the main reason I decided to renew my membership to BPL. They're always informative and they bypass so much of the mindless consumerism that underlies a lot of this site.
Given the above (and the fact that I can't find a reasonably light 4 season tent that is long enough to fit me), I think it's high time you (Roger) spill the beans on how to make a Caffin tent. ;)Sep 30, 2009 at 5:57 pm #1531962
@ebinderLocale: New England
I'm glad to know that I pay money to be a member of a group that's populated by Children.
He made a FREAKIN shovel! Lighten up people!
If you made a different shovel, and did not like his, then take it and go home.
Nice work Roger! Please keep up the great creative inspirations for others to ponder on, and use to create their own designs.Sep 30, 2009 at 6:10 pm #1531968
In case you have not been paying attention, the "problem" with Roger's tents is that they are not easy (economically viable…) to manufacture, however they could be a great DIY if you have the time and the skills . I have plenty of time and no skills neither the patience to learn.
But here are enough pictures, drawings and comments to get you started.
Maybe Roger will accept donations for his efforts….
BTW, there is a winter tent link there too as well as many other DIY projects in the other pages.
Or start here
FrancoSep 30, 2009 at 9:51 pm #1532014
I appreciate your instructions with clamps and vice grips and painting the item.
I probably will never make my own trowel. I just found a sea and ski collapsible trowel that weighs barely nothing and digs a hole fast. I was amazed. I'd like to see a review of it in backpacking light. It's really a working tool. It doesn't hurt my hands and the handle folds back into the blade. It's about four inches folded and maybe 2.5 inches across. At the bottom of the handle is a latch. Inside the handle, opening the latch storage is available for tissue and a lighter to burn trash. Cool.Sep 30, 2009 at 9:52 pm #1532015
@skeetsLocale: Melbourne, Australia
I don't mean to be a wet blanket all the time, but one of those orange plastic trowels they've been selling for over 20 years (mine are 25 y.o.) only weighs in at under 65g.
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