MontBell Sleeping Bags

Hi Timothy,

Regarding liners, yes you want to avoid getting your bare skin on the bag and getting it greasy/dirty. You can wash down bags with down cleaner, but it's a right pain (montbell will have instructions on their website) and I doubt it does good things for the life of the bag. I'm pretty obsessive about keeping my down gear clean, so I don't have to wash it.

Yes you can use a liner, but these add weight without adding much warmth and are a pain to get in and out of. What you can do instead is reuse some of your clothes, and perhaps keep some spare like a set of socks and dry/clean long pants just for sleeping in (which you might take to wear in the evening anyway). Warmer and lighter than a liner and it reuses some of the gear you have. They can be very thin/light, since you're better putting your weight into down in the bag for warmth – I use a pair of MB UL wind pants, and all the tops from my day clothes (bar my rain jacket). Others often use long thermal underwear like Capilene 1/2 or merino. If you're hiking in dry open ground in pants you might be clean enough to just wear your hiking clothes straight to bed, but I find it hard to imagine doing this, I'm usually too wet and muddy and wearing shorts anyway.

Same goes for your head, you want to keep your sweaty/greasy noggin off the hood of you bag (if it has one). Rogger Caffin made himself some silk pajamas with a hood :) I have a hoodless bag, but still keep the hood of my down vest clean with a very thin polypro balaclava.

Re getting too warm, you can always unzip the bag and pull it off you when you overheat. I think the only time you'd have a problem with this is when you have a bag with a half zip or no zip at all (unusual, but the PHD bags have this option). MB bags have a full length zipper I think ? So you should be ok if the bag is warmer than what you strictly need.

Adding extra layers to a lighter bag is an option, but it can work out to be less weight efficient than just having a warmer bag. I can't comment on your specific plans, but in general I think it's silly to skimp on sleeping bag/gear weight – down is so light for the warmth you get, and it's thoroughly miserable being cold, and all the things you do to get around it (eating at night, taking extra non-insulated clothes, shivering) counteract any minor weight saving anyway. 5oz is the weight of a tshirt, or a few gulps of water, or a couple of snacks.

I think you're right in just going for a single bag: you can either
– get a warmer bag which covers all your trips, at the expense of being perhaps a bit heavier than needed on some
– get the lighter bag, and spend extra on a warm down jacket (eg MB Alpine Light is good value, hooded or unhooded) and sleep in this to boost the sleeping bag for some trips. Nice to have warm camp clothing too.

The options can be a bit overwhelming… what I did is write down the 2-3 main temperature ranges I wanted to cover, and combinations of bag+clothes for each that would work.

I've often seen Montbell bags around on the web on sale. prolitegear.com often has them discounted by 20%, although their stock is looking a bit thin at the moment.

I am 5'6. The 30F+ rated bag has a short verison available for sale. According to the specs, it can fit individuals 5'6 and under. Should I assume the worst and believe that the sizing isnt accurate and just get a regular sized bag cause that is was I planned on doing if I got the 30F+, just get the regular sized one.

I was unaware of a short version of the SS#3, but the SS bags have a draw string at the bottom to close off part of the footbox for people who are not 5'10". It doesn't say how much.

I was thinking about investing in this liner because that way I wont have to wash the sleeping bag. I dont even think you can wash down can you? Sorry if that sounds stupid, Im new to down products. Anyways heres the liner:

Don't get a liner, get silk long underwear. Almost as light + dual use as a base layer for extra warmth. Sierra Trading Post almost always is having some kind of sale, and I got a set of Terramar top and bottoms for about $50 shipped and they weigh 6.5 oz total. I read too many people complain about getting twisted up in their liners when they moved around at night.

You can certainly wash down. Nikwax makes a down wash

VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION: If I get a down bag that is say 25F+ or 30F+ as mentioned above and it turns out to be a 45F or 50F night, am I going to be roasting my balls off? I guess what I am trying to ask is does down insulate heat differently under various climates and conditions? Or will it retain the same amount of heat in all temperatures. You might not be understanding me, but thats ok. Short and simple, is part of being sure that you will be warm on extremely cold nights come with knowing that you will be sweating your butt off on warmer nights?

This is a tough one. I had to have two bag. A 32 degree quilt, and a 45-50 degree quilt. I was sweating my rear off in the 32 degree quilt when it got over 50 degree or so. Venting works for a lot of people. Venting didn't help me. Sleeping on top was too cold. Lucky for me, somebody was selling a JRB Shenandoah on gear swap. But that's me. I sleep pretty warm, and I can't sleep at all when I get hot.

But if you can only get one bag, you have to get one that will keep you safely warm in the coldest temps you expect and deal with the discomfort when it gets warmer.

All down is hypoallergenic. Some down has not been washed suffient times, and so has "dirty stuff" on it, which dirty stuff is non-hypoallergenic.

Maybe someone else has more insight on this than I, and could comment on their understanding re. this point.

"Sanitized" down has been around for a long time now. It is supposedly more hypoallergenic as it's been washed and treated with an antimicrobial.

As for you bag choices, the most versatile system may be to get the warmer bag (32F) plus a light insulated outer layer such as the MB Ex-Light jacket. This should take you down to 25F in a pinch, and when it gets warmer you can just wear the jacket without the bag (or put the bag over you legs only). I agree sleeping bags liners are a PITA and sleeping clothes are more comfy and versatile.

I'm not a thru-hiker, but have lived multiple years in each of GA, NC, and VA. This includes backpacking with a good bit of it on the AT.

If you are hiking from May to August…which means you are killing some major miles…I think a 30 degree bag will not only be plenty warm, you will likely find it to be too warm from NC through VA. My guess is it will be 50+ from NC on to the north, I can not speak to the Northern end if you reach it by August.

If you were starting ealier say in April then I'd say 30 degree bag is needed at start. If starting in March a 30 degree bag might have to take you though some cold nights in the teens.

I live in NC these days and pretty much stop hiking from Memorial Day until labor day as NC and VA are just too hot for me to enjoy at night. It looks like this coming Labor Day my have the mountains having lows in the 50's so I'm getting ready.

Jamie

I am allergic to all sort of stuff but down does not bother me.

I got the #2 MB UL SS bag because it has a collar and a lot of people have told me its a lot warmer than the #3 even though the comfort rating difference is only 5dF.
A collar makes big difference especially if you dont close down the hood.

I also had people tell me to get the #0 or #1 since I was leaving early, but I do not want to carry the extra weight or swap out and more $ plus I already have a -20/40 down bag.

I also figured I would have a better chance of being comfortable using a #2 in summer than a 1 or a 0.

I am going to take off early/cold, but will be taking a small climasheild quilt liner to extend the range, tyvek bivy and I have a spitfire tent, along with synthetic layers.

I now actually think I will just carry everything all the way through however long that lasts, but I can always send some of it back if I think its dead weight.

So far if I can find a 28 oz backpack I like, and if I slightly modify my tent, I will have a fully loaded pack with 5 days of food and 2L of h20 at 27# and that is with tent, a #2 bag, quilt, bivy, a regular neoair and a blue pad. I could probably push it a bit or ditch the tent, go woth a tarp/bivy and get down to 25#. That will really be a moderate winter setup. My 3 season total pack weight with most of the same gear without the quilt and without some of the winter clothes would be about 24-25#

I have been testing the MB #2 at room temperature, like 75-76dF using it like a quilt and its pretty comfortable. I have not woke up sweating or anything unless my feet are in the box.

It may sound odd but it works best opened up drapped sideways with you feet hanging out. It breaths really well so it should be good for summer nights.

If I take the microlight quilt, I might use that in the warmer months, and just carry it and the #2 just in case.

The montbell UL bags look thin when you first look at them. I had a #5 UL rated at 40dF and you could almost see through the thing. I slept out in it a few nights, no tent, no bivy, outside, only silk johns, socks 40dF with heavy dew and I stayed warm at 40dF. The DWR did its job, and as soon as the sun hit it it was dry.

I have also had a #3 and a #7. All warm to their comfort ratings.

Montbell bags are conservatively rated. IE the #2 like I have is comfort rated to 25dF. The minimum rating is 5dF good for 6-7 hours supposedly.

I am pretty confident that this setup will carry me from 0dF to summer, but I will be counting on cloths for some of the insulation, so if you get soaked that could be a problem.

I have never pushed one to its minimum.

Prolite has about the cheapest prices and are great on returns and exchanges if you change your mind even months later. Just keep all the tags. Great people to deal with.

You might want read this thread.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=888620#post888620

I'm very happy with my UL SS #3– I've used it in night time temps from the mid-20's to upper-40's and have stayed comfortable. I have a MB alpine light jacket that I would wear if I needed to be out in colder temps.

I'd skip the bag liner. I carry a pair of light long undies (the top is a hoody) to keep my bag clean.

I would suggest you get the regular length bag. I am 5'9 and find the regular just barely long enough.

If I was getting a single Montbell bag it would be a #2. The neck baffle/collar does indeed make a big difference, and the #3 bag doesn't have one. It really helps stop cold air seeping in once temperatures dip down to freezing or below.

So tell me more about this collar, where is it positioned? Will it be underneath my neck and how does it work? Also does anyone know for certain if the zippers are completely unzipped along the whole length of the bag? If they unzip all the way down the side of the bag, then that will easily lead me to buy the 25F+ one because it will be more versatile in warmer weather. Please fill me if anyone knows anything. Thanks!

Collars are either partial or full. A partial one usually is only on the top of the bag, i.e. in front of your neck. A full collar completely encircles your neck.

If you want a quick education on the parts and design of a sleeping bag, go to the Western Mountaineering website:

http://www.westernmountaineering.com/index.cfm?section=Products&page=Sleeping%20Bags&viewpost=2&ContentId=13

I'm sure the 30F bag would be more than sufficient for the AT. But for the CDT? I'm not sure. Probably, but… I've been investigating this region, myself, because I'm about to move to Colorado. As an example, the average night-time lows for Leadville (10,000 feet) are about 40F in July and August, but 32F in June and September. So, freezing. In June. And these are AVERAGES, mind you. I'd hate to be caught in a cold snap at 12,000 feet in the Rockies in June with a 30F bag.

OTOH you'll probably hike it nobo, so in the coldest time (May) you'll be in the south, and you'll hit the highest elevations in mid-summer, eh? (I'm asuming that Colorado is the highest part, but I'd have to check to be sure.) So the 30F bag probably would work fine, IF you have a decent insulating layer to wear to sleep if you have to, as others have said.

Plus, who knows, maybe you will be able to afford another bag if you want it in 2012. Heck, that's three years from now.

I've never had overheating problems with any bag, unless it lacked a zipper. If it gets really hot, unzip it as fully as possible and drape it over you as a quilt so you can cover/uncover as needed. I did this with my ridiculously heavy issue bag through most of my deployment in Afghanistan. In this situation being too hot is a manageable annoyance, whereas being too cold is an unbearably uncomfortable and potentially life-threatening situation.

Oh, and +1 on NOT getting a liner. Well, actually, I'm sure some people like them. But the few times I tried one I kept feeling like I was in a straightjacket. It kept getting twisted around my legs. Just wear your base layer.

Tim, all montbell bags unzip fully down the side, including the #2 bag.

They unzip to within about 12" of the end. Enough so you can stick your feet out easily. Persoanlly I really dont like half zip bags.

Go here and click on the image. A good photo of what a collar looks like.

http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=28&p_id=1121726

A collar should be on any serious cold weather bag. I would even like them on 40dF bags because of how I sleep. It wraps all the way around at about the top of the shoulder/neck area and is designed to stop drafts from entering the bag. If you are a side sleeper and or move a lot, everytime you move and lift the top of the bag, you will pump cold air into the bag. The collar helps that.

One other piece of cold weather technology is the zipper baffle. It helps drafts at the zipper. Montbells #4 and below have that.

A more serious cold weather bag might even have double zippers.

My old -40 snowlion has a snap in neck baffle, zipper baffle, and 2 zippers.

If you are still interested in a #3 synthetic bag, and there is nothing wrong with it either, just no neck baffle, campmor has the #3 alpine burrow bags that weigh about 2#2oz which is not too bad. They have a good return policy too, so you could just send it back if you dont like it.

The big weight difference between the #2 and the #3 considering they are only 5dF apart is the neck baffle, but in my case I think it is worth it.

Tim,

I started out with a #3, slept in it at 30 degrees, regular base layer, (no liner for me, too tangly, silk top/bottom, if you think you want liner, test one out first is my advise, make sure you can return it if you don't like) and felt like I wasn't warm enough. Returned it for a #2, which I have owned for 1.5 years. Huge difference in cold temp performance, down collar, great hood, more down. Easy to quilt in warm weather, and I think you have lots of good advise above. If you are choosing between a 2 and 3, IMO, a no brainer for the 2, sucks to be cold. good luck.

Ditto to what Paul said. I had a similar experience and found for the additional weight, the #2 is noticeably warmer – higher loft, draft collar, etc.

I also find the #2 to be much warmer than the #3 – for some reason there's a big drop in down and warmth between these. In just a tee and boxers, I can sleep in the #2 at freezing point and be warm.

Next year, all bags go through a revision. Mont-Bell is getting rid of the #2, #4.

Your choice will be #1, #3 and #5 in all their bags.

Hey Guys! First off…

Dean thanks for the link to the WM site explaining things.

Ashley thanks for confirming that the zippers are practically full length. I love that option.

Troy thank you for going in depth on what a collar is and how it works as well as taking the addition step of giving me details on what a zipper baffle is and on what sleeping bags they are offered on.

Thanks Paul, David, and Nat for sharing your experiences.

And lastly thanks to the many above that wrote before them.

However, before I conclude my questioning process, I do still have two more to ask. Judging my the looks of it, the collar doesnt seem to get in the way of the sleeper or cause any lumpness within the bag correct? Long story short, I guess what I am trying to ask is, has there ever been any known people to have discomfort issues with bags that have collars? My assumption is no, but I didnt think it would hurt to ask.

Lastly…

>Next year, all bags go through a revision. Mont-Bell is getting rid of the #2, #4.
Your choice will be #1, #3 and #5 in all their bags.

Andy are you sure of this for certain? Has anyone else heard about this? Got any links I can read which relate to manners? Also what kinds of revisions are they making? I thought they just introduced the stretch series why would they revise it so soon? Also are you positive the #2 will be getting removed? If so I might have to jump on getting one soon then huh? Alright well can Andy or anyone else elaborate on matters? Thanks.

Tim,

The draft collar is a tube sewn into the top and bottom of the bag, with its' own cord set up, so you can fine tune it as needed. It in no way interferes with your sleeping whether in use or not. You can adjust it to fit snugly around your neck, blocking the tranfer of cold and hot air in and out of the bag when you move around. Very nice tool to have when it is chilly. Otherwise, you never notice it is there. As far as MB changing models, my suggestion is if indeed the poster is in the know, then you have some time to decide if the #2 is right for you. If it fits your parameters, well then time to find the best deal and stimulate the economy. Good luck.

Never had a problem with a collar. A collar is a good thing, but not really needed on a 50d and up bag.

Think it would be a nice thing to have on a quilt though.

I think you will be able to get #2 UL bags for a while. Who knows how long though.

A #1 would not be bad either if you expect be be in cold weather. I have considered one for sure. If you are relying on extra insulation and clothes to take you down to 0dF, its a lot easier to do in a 15dF bag than a 25dF bag.

You are 5'6 so you could use a short #1. That weighs 2#3oz compared to a #2 UL regular at 1#12oz, penelty of 7 oz for 10 more dF is not too bad. Probably lighter than extra insul to extend a #2 down to lower temps.

The #1 spiral down hugger is $240 at prolite and weighs 2# even.

I have never slept in a spiral down hugger.

Who knows, they might put a collar in the #3. That would make sense to me.

#3,#1, 0 exp collars and baffles, #5 and #7 no collars and no baffles, the same as now.

Andy would definitely have the inside on the MB bags (he owns http://www.campsaver.com).

Andy, any word on what the fill weight is expected to be on the #3?

Sure.
The Super stretch bags have been around a long time. Next year there are no UI.L. Super Stretch sleeping bags, they are discontinued. This year Mont-Bell came out with the UL Spiral Fill bag. This bag does not have any stretch built in but stretches a little with the spiral construction. Mont-Bell will be putting stretch into the UL Spiral fill bags next year and call them the UL Super Stretch Spiral Down Hugger. This replaces the UL Super Stretch Down Hugger bags. They will continue with the UL Spiral Down Hugger as well. The UL Super Stretch Spiral will come in 5 temps. EXP, #0, #1, #3 and #5. They will be priced similar to this years UL Super Stretch Bags. THe UL Sprial Down hugger does not change from what is available this year.

So no more horizontal baffles on the SS series.

Should make the production line easier, but I wonder about the affects on rating and comfort. I would think they would be about the same.

Will the #3 have a neck collar ??

Hi Dave,
pre-release specs on the UL Super Stretch Spiral Down Hugger:

– 1 lb 4 oz (REg), 1 lb 6 oz
– Fill weight: 10 oz, 11 oz
– sholder girth: 53.4"-75.3" and 57.3" to 80.8"
– knee girth: 44.1 to 62.2" and 47.1" and 66.5"
stuffed size: 5.7" x 10.7"

One interesting spec was the sizing. It says Regular is 6' and long is 6' 6" when typically we received the same sizing as their Japanese Bags which were normally 5' 10" for reg and 6' for long. Looks like these are modified for the U.S. market.

What number would that be ?

Edit: Never mind, I assume its a #3.