New Valandre site

It was a nice surprise to find on Valandré website the EN 13537 testing of their bag.

Frederic

"We started the lightweight gear revolution and we're not done"

I had no idea.

"A sleeping bag that is more versatile than a sherpa on crack."

Insulting an ancient mountain people. That'll be sure to boost sales.

Ahh…they're French. What do you expect.

Okay… have you found anything GOOD or PRAISEWORTHY about the site?

I have also found some things that may need changing, but I have also noticed some positives about the site.

It's certainly an improvement over the previous site :-)

I must admit you need to get used to Niels' wording. Some interventions I saw from him in fora were dynamic and intruiging to say the least. But he's a passionate guy, that's for sure.

Websites are a personal thing. The bags are what counts and they are quite impressive.

Still – I did not know they initiated the lightweight movement ;)

I have a Valandre Shocking Blue and it is, without doubt, the single finest sleeping bag I have ever had, used or seen. I could get by with just this bag and my all-time favourite synthetic bag, my ID North Twin for everything here in B.C., if I had to and these bags are what I almost always use now, while my various others stay on the shelves of my gear room.

Valandre, I.D. and WM are the bags to buy, IMO and while I will not say that any of them are a "bad" choice, there is nothing like the Shocking Blue, a "tour de force" as the French are wont to say.

Niels, btw, is a hell of a nice guy and his comments simply reflect an imperfect ability with written English and are not meant to insult anyone.

I didn't notice current pricing on the website – what are the prices on the Mirage, for example?

The site is much cleaner – reminds me a bit of the Nunatak site, although a little flashier.

Mirage pricing ranges from $429 to $479 depending on size and zip option. It is a legitimate 20 degree bag in my experience. Weight is 24 oz for the medium.

Not exactly sure why prices are not posted on the site. Good question. Valandre' may just leave it up to the retailer's sites to decide to do that or not.

Valandré isnt french its danish , and the wording of their communication is something special.
But they make really good bags and that is what is important for me, both my wife and I are using a mirage.

Their new site provides information and is user friendly; a great improvement over the previous.

I've been using a Valandre Mirage 3/4 Zipper for approximately 1.5 years and it is at the very least (in my opinion better) than Western Mountaineering in terms of over all quality, design, and craftsmanship. It's the single reason I sold my WM Ultralight Super….I kept grabbing the Valandre.

Cheers,
Christopher

I owned a Valandre Freja, and it is a very good (not great) bag. I sold it recently and picked up a Feathered Friends Ptarmigan in eVent. The Ptarmigan's build quality is certainly equal to the Valandre, but the Ptarmigan is definitely warmer and only weighs about 1 ounce more (on my scale, the Freja weighed 3 lbs, 8.93 ounces brand new, and the Ptarmigan weighed 3 pounds, 10.08 ounces brand new). And the Ptarmigan has a greater down load, at least according to FF. I am an average sleeper (neither hot nor cold), and I was cold in the Freja at -2F, and comfortable at -6f in the Ptarmigan. I was using the same sleeping pad combo with both (1/2 ridgerest with pro-lite4).

And the Ptarmigan is waterproof. That's an important feature for me. And its made in Seattle — another nice feature. I also feel that the eVent shell will be more durable than the stuff Valandre uses in the long run, but I have nothing to back that up. I'll let you know in a few years.

One downside to the Ptarmigan vs. the Freja — the Freja compresses smaller — probably about 15 or 20 percent smaller.

I think that the Valandre Shocking Blue is the only real interesting bag in the Valandre line-up, but when I climbed in one, I felt that its chest girth of over 63 inches means a lot of dead air space for a bunch of people, me included. The footbox construction, however, is phenomenal. But if the Shocking Blue fits you, and meets your temp requirements, it may be a great purchase.

As for other bag makers…The only other manufacturer that I believe equals FF and Valandre (in terms of build quality) is PH Designs. I have only seen one of PHD's bags (a full custom bag), and holy crap was that thing nice. I think it may have been the nicest bag I have ever seen. And holy crap are they expensive. The british guy whose bag it was told me he paid 650 pounds for it!! That's like $1400 or something. Crazy.

I can't comment on the bags, but you asked about the site, so my specific comment is: I really dislike the opening page. Some silly video/animation that really means little. And on my Mac and PC at work, at least, it just stops. Not replaced with anything, just the end of the video. And there isn't even a "payoff" to the video to help you understand exactly the point unless you click through to another page. The user has to figure out what do to next. Not that that's hard to do, just unnecessary and not user friendly.

The video leaves me with the impression that they have created a line of headless bags, which is not the case at all. But you don't get the point unless you click through. Very poorly implemented from a communication standpoint, in my opinion.

As a user (and a professional communicator) I don't like the "flashy" stuff, I just want information, implemented in a professional, eye-pleasing but easy to access and understand way. The more clicking I have to do, the more needless frivolity I have to get through, the more I have to guess or figure out, the less likely I am to click through to what they really want me to see. They need to ditch that opening video.

FWIW

Doug

Thanks, Doug. Yours is mostly the kind of feedback that I was looking for in the original post, in regards to the site. I also found myself scratching my head on the opening video, but the more that I watched, it, the more that I began to notice the inner profile of the bag, like the anatomically shaped baffles for instance. I believe that that feature is pretty unique in the industry, but I could be wrong.

I realize that Valandre is a French company run by a Dane, and so I am flexible to a certain extent of the cultural differences and views…I tend to overlook some of the minor stuff and view the technical information that really matters to me.

I think that Niels goes to great pains to educate the public on the quality of the French Grey Goose Down that he has access to. Your comment about the compressiblity of your Freja bag is similar to my experience. I marveled at how my huge THOR would compress to the point where I could fit it easily into the bottom of my McHale SCMII with no problems. My Mirage can compress easily to the size of a volleyball, perhaps even smaller, my Shocking Blue is lightweight and compresses small as well.

You will never find Valandre' using a W/B shell. Their feeling is that it limits breathability of the down and it retains moisture. I guess that I adhere to that philosophy and choose to use a bivy sack when needed.

As a side note, the Bloody Mary recently won the Gold Award at a European Outdoor Show, competing against the likes of Arc'Teryx and others. Whatever that means, I am not sure, but they did get recognized for a great design and product.

I love the Bloody Mary bag and its Marie Antoinette collar. It will hold in body heat better than any other collar that I have used. If you are claustrophobic, it may drive you nuts, but I do not have that problem fortunately.

I have personally used the Shocking Blue in -20 degree temps and was amazed at its ability to keep me warm. Great bag with a high warmth to weight ratio. Even though the shoulder girth was large, I felt that the top draped over me to the point where I did not notice cold spots. Perhaps due to the anatomical cut of the baffles, I'm not sure.

Thanks for your honest feedback. And to those that own and use Valandre' bags, it's nice to read how much you like them.

I actually own and use the bags I comment on and my FF bag was custom-built for me in 1989, the subsequent ones I have seen do not seem quite as nicely made. It is NOT equal in over-all quality to either my Shocking Blue and, yes, that IS "THE" bag from Valandre, IMO.

The FF bag is quite easily bested by my custom Integral Designs XPDII "Himalayan" with an Endurance shell, which, after using both, I find superior to eVENT, for sleeping bag shells. Unfortunately, many do not seem to use ID's bags and they ARE the only maker I consider equal to Valandre, however, the DESIGN of the SB simply beats anything else.

WM is right up there, as well and mine is a fine bag as are ALL of the "top" maker's models. I would never hesitate to use a bag from Valandre, FF, WM, ID in ANY circumstances and would not bother with anything less.

I spoke with Peter Hutchinson of PHD quite extensively, just before I received my Valandre SB. I was am still am considering one of his "Xero" expedition bags and the cost to me delivered here to Vancouver, was over 500 quid and this is a -20F bag, IIRC. I like some of his design features and have no hesitation paying for top quality, but, there is nothing out there, right now, that will beat the Valandre SB and it is damm hard to convince my "CEO" that another $1000.00 sleeping bag is "needed"…….

All in all, any of the top makers are so close that most comments concerning quality are just BSing for fun here on the net. For UL backpackers, tho', I doubt that anything will outperform the WM "Extremelite" series and I wish I could get a "Versalite" in a 66" width……Gary, are you listening????

No offense to anyone, but to the poster who said that they "have used the Shocking Blue in -20 degree temps and was amazed at how warm it kept me" I just can't believe it.

I owned the Freja — which is rated by Valandre as a much warmer bag (and with nearly 25% more down in it)– and have been cold at -2F, and I am not a cold sleeper. Valandre itself rates the lowest end of the SB's comfort zone as +16F. Its "Extreme" rating is only -18F, 2 degrees warmer than the -20F you cited. And at temps at the "Extreme" rating, you will be freezing your butt off….just not dead!

I just don't want someone to read this thread and think that they will be warm at -20F in a Shocking Blue. Such misinformation can actually be lethal in the backcountry in the winter.

I also think the video at the beginning is a bit misleading. You'd expect headless bags because of it. But then the video doesn't transition to another page (perhaps the 'products' or an about page). I think that if the video were hidden beneath an explanation of the anatomically shaped baffles then the viewer would better understand what they're going for. But it almost seems there would be a better way of showing that (like a different video or something) since it's not intuitive.

I think the main problem with the text is the priority it's given. It's always at the top, above the products, and at such a large font you're forced to read it. The site presents it as more important than the products.

On the products page, the outerwear link is pretty tough to see. Light colors on white doesn't read well, but a simple darker outer glow or something similar fixes that.

The top and bottom bars are a bit visually distracting. They clutter the page. I noticed that when I was looking at the sleeping bags that when I scrolled down just enough to cut out the top bar it was a lot more visually pleasing for me.

I think there should be larger photos available of the bags (like click and expand the bottom photos).

The reviews of the bags seems better suited for the forums, as is on the Bloody Mary, there's yours (who's an authorized dealer) and presumably the website designer giving a shout out. While I'm sure you only sell products you firmly believe in, you also have a vested interest in selling them, so a review on the main page of the bag doesn't make me want to buy it. Nor does Greg's shout out.

The retailers page is okay, again the text is given greater emphasis than the actual retailers. When I'm clicking looking for a retailer, I don't want to have to hunt to find where I should click. But the drop down it comes up with once you find it is nice. It has good info and it's easy to contact the people.

Same with the specs of the products, lots of good info. Besides a suggested retail price, I can't think of anything else I'd want to know. Though listing the extreme temps large and bold under the name is a bit misleading. If I buy a Mirage thinking I'm going to sleep comfortable to 9 F and freeze all night, I'm not going to be a happy Valandre customer. It's just the priority it's given over the more useful info that I take issue with. It's good info to have for sure.

Overall I like how once your on a products page you can navigate to the others. It's easy to see the other products, and it looks professional. The numbering on top of the sleeping bags is a bit busy and it takes a second to decipher. Additionally it's a bit misleading. For the middle section, the high temp (35.6 F) is given as the Mirage comfort rating, while the low temp of the Shocking Blue is given as the extreme rating. A more intuitive, standardized division of the sleeping bags would be nice.

I can't remember the old site, I just remember it not being that great. This is definitely a huge improvement. Overall it's a solid site.

QUOTE(No offense to anyone, but to the poster who said that they "have used the Shocking Blue in -20 degree temps and was amazed at how warm it kept me" "I just can't believe it.

I owned the Freja — which is rated by Valandre as a much warmer bag (and with nearly 25% more down in it)– and have been cold at -2F, and I am not a cold sleeper. Valandre itself rates the lowest end of the SB's comfort zone as +16F. Its "Extreme" rating is only -18F, 2 degrees warmer than the -20F you cited. And at temps at the "Extreme" rating, you will be freezing your butt off….just not dead!

I just don't want someone to read this thread and think that they will be warm at -20F in a Shocking Blue. Such misinformation can actually be lethal in the backcountry in the winter."') UNQUOTE

Due to all that is posted on the internet, I don't blame you for thinking that my claim was exaggerated.

Allow me to provide more detail, since you have questioned my integrity in public, rather than in a PM.

I took a group of Venture Scouts up Logan Canyon for an overnighter. The temps plummeted as the sun went down. I had a Kestral 4000 with me in my pack lid, which was outside the shelter. After playing Mother Teresa to all these kids (I didn't get any help from the other adults present), I fell into bed at 10pm, looked at the Kestral and it was -13F at that time. I cinched up the Hood and Collar as best I could ( I was in a Nallo 3 Hilleberg with my two sons) and went to sleep. It took awhile for my feet to warm up but they finally did. I had a Marmot windshirt on with DriClime lining, plus a balaclava. The next morning at 6AM, I got up and checked all the kids, checked the Kestral meter and it was -20.8F. Our inner tent was open to the vestibule and the vestibule was closed. I did not take the temp in the tent, the temperature recorded was right outside in my pack.

Was I warm as stated? Yes. Was I chilled? NO.

I have had other feedback from my customers that have used the Shocking Blue OUTSIDE WITHOUT A SHELTER at -18F. We both used an Exped 9 DLX Down Air Mat.

There you have it.

We all know that everyone sleeps differently and it varies on a lot of things, food intake, etc. All I know is that it worked for me.

I have also tested my Mirage down to +12F outside in my backyard on an EXPED DAM and did fine. Maybe I sleep warm. I took photos of the temperature gauges at that time because I knew skeptics would think I was lying.

I would certainly recommend that users experiment with their own bags and see how they do themselves.

Sorry the Freja did not work for you. It has a different collar than the Shocking Blue and does not seal in body heat as well as the Shocking Blue or the Bloody Mary. Glad you are satisfied with the FF bags, wonderful. I think they are well made bags myself. Very well manufactured from what I have seen.

I have tons of satisfied Valandre' customers that are passionate about their bags like I am, but everyone is different.

But don't call me a liar in public just because you didn't have all of the facts.

I meant to say — in public — that the Shocking Blue will not keep a person warm at -20F because I don't want some one doing research online and coming across this thread and after reading it, think that the SB is good to -20F.

Whatever you say, I still don't buy it. If the SB was really good to -20F, no one on the planet looking for a winter, alpine or expedition bag would ever buy anything else. It would simply be the biggest breakthrough in bag performance EVER.

But seeing as you — a Valandre SALESPERSON — are the only person to EVER claim that the bag is good to -20F, I think we know what to do with your claim. The manufacturer doesn't even claim that it will keep you warm at -20F. The manufacturer, in fact, states that the limit of a comfortable nights sleep is +16F — a full 36 degrees warmer than your claim.

Not trying to start world war III here — but leading people to believe that a bag will be sufficient down to -20, when it is rated and tested only to +16, can be deadly.

-20 was not an official statement. That was only my experience. I would recommend the bag as a -5 degree bag in order to provide a margin of safety. But I would also suggest that they do some testing themselves before using it below zero.

On the other side of the coin, because I am a user of their bags too, I may just have more experience with them than the average person and am anxious to share my findings. I retail for Integral Designs and Montbell as well, and make the LEAST profit margin on Valandre bags! Financial motive is not the primary reason for promoting their products.

Valandre has had lots of testers that have taken the Shocking Blue below zero. The bag has been demo'd for several years.

I have a hang up myself on the temps posted on the new site and think that they need to fix them. But it will take time and patience to get all of the bugs worked out on the new site.

Getting back to the original post, thanks to all of you who have posted with your objective opinions. They have been helpful and I will be passing your feedback on to Niels at Valandre.

GS, O.K., so you do not believe the posts by Charlie Jennings and seem most concerned about people being bumped off in …the backcountry…, due to believing in a situation which I find quite credible.

So, may I enquire as to your actual cold weather experience, say, how many years of regular winter sub-zero camping you have done? Have you camped in Alaska, the Yukon, B.C., the N.W.T. or other regions with very cold weather and remote wilderness?

My own coldest night was only -41*F and in an original Marmot Mtn. Works bag, rated by them, to -25*F. This was in January, 1978, in "Kokanee Glacier Park", near Nelson, B.C. and I found this bag, in my Early Winter's GT bivy and in my Fjallraven Expedition tent, warm enough to sleep comfortably….but, could have used a better pad system.

I often slept in my tent(s) at -10*F to -25*F, measured with my R.E.I. Taylor thermometer, which I still possess, ,in my old Caravan double expedition bag from Sweden and my Paul Petzoldt Wilderness Equipment Polarguard expediton bag. The MMW GT-down bag was much better than these and kept me comfy from 1978 to 1999, when it was stolen in a home B&E.

I also slept in my FF summer bag, rated to 40*F, in a tent, at a measured 10*F and in comfort on a thick foamy. This was at Crawford Creek, B.C., in Oct. 2001, when Elk hunting. I sleep warmer than most and find my VSB about ideal for almost all contemporary B.C. winter conditions….I would not hesitate to use it at -20.

My first "winter" overnight was in November, 1964 and I have spent 100s of nights in bags in cold weather, here in B.C. Everyone is different and a tent can make a BIG difference, so, I believe what Charlie is saying here.

Charlie – should you wish to lend me a Shocking Blue I will do some objective testing for everyone. I promise to be completely unbiased. Of course, you will need to lend me your Nallo 2 as well.

; )

Someone asked:

"So, may I enquire as to your actual cold weather experience, say, how many years of regular winter sub-zero camping you have done? Have you camped in Alaska, the Yukon, B.C., the N.W.T. or other regions with very cold weather and remote wilderness?"

My experience is limited to:

1) Alaskan climbing, including 2 trips to Denali (one day the weather will cooperate and I'll top out, at least that's what I keep telling myself), 1 trip to Hunter (on its flanks — didn't attempt the summit), and 1 trip up Foraker (very difficult climb for me). I learned – in VERY short order – about cold weather survival on my first trip to Denali. It was an early season attempt (we landed on the Kahiltna glacier on April 28), and encountered -15F temps at Kahiltna Pass, a mere 3 days into the trip. And it just got colder from there.

3) Unanticipated camp outside the barrels on Elbrus (right next to a disgusting trash dump beyond the barrels). A russian military unit (about 40 of them) decided to come ski the mountain for a few days, and they took up ALL the space inside. We were left wondering why they wanted to stay at the barrels on a ski trip, but I guessed they didn't come to ski – despite having carried their skis with them. More likely, they simply came to drink because were drunk the entire time, and they didn't like that a few of us were americans. I didn't feel like insisting that they make room for us inside, because in addition to skis, they had automatic weapons with them. The hut a little further up the mountain had just burned down, so we decided to just stay put and bivy. Cold, windy night. Not sure of the temp, but WELL below zero.

4) Cascade climbing, including a winter ascent of Rainier, an early season ascent of Hood and a late season climb up Adams.

5) A windy, somewhat cold spring backpack of the circuit in Torres del Paine. The wind was the real issue, as temps bottomed out around 0 on the coldest night.

6) Numerous winter backpacking and skitour trips in New Hampshire, Maine, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. Nighttime temps below zero are the rule, rather than the exception.

Never done any winter camping in the Yukon or BC.