Homemade tents

> I gather you favor mylar over LDPE (at least for you vs Scouts that may not be as careful). How much noise does it make in the wind?

Hi Michael,

After building tents from both, I do like mylar better.
It is as strong as Cuben, just as light, and way cheaper.
By then selectively applying reinforced tape to the inside of the Space Blanket material in high stress areas of a given tent design, it greatly reduces the chance of failures, and allows sewing of the material.

I like having the silver on both sides. It really does keep the tent cooler in the summer by reflecting sunlight. I also really like the one-way mirror effect. Being able to see out through the tent, but others can't see in.

On the negative side mylar is stiffer than LDPE so it is more of a pain to fold. It took me a few tries to learn the trick to fold it back up tightly. The mylar does make a crinkling sound. I never felt it got "loud", but it also never is "silent" (unless there is no breeze at all). I have camped in the mylar tent for a year on scouts outings and no one has ever complained about the sounds the mylar makes. They do complain about the sound of my SNORING.

On the negative side for LDPE. I found out the hard way that if you pack it really tight that the material will show stretch marks from zipper pulls, grommets, and cordage. This is why I have a whole page in my notes about how to fold the LDPE tent to make those three items end up on the outside of the rolled up tent.

On the plus side for LDPE. It is perfectly quiet, and there is almost no chance of it ripping. It will stretch not rip.

Al,
Did you do anything to finish the cut edge of noseeum that would lay on the ground?

Have you tried just overlapping the noseeum doors? I was going to try to do away with the zippers.

I have all the materials – now I just need the time to play. ;) I just put out samples of the white heatsheets material and 2 tapes for an extended exposure test.

>Did you do anything to finish the cut edge of noseeum that would lay on the ground?

Hi Michael,

I finished the zipper and tent edges of the noseeum, but I left the ground edge unfinished. I had cut it long enough to finish, but found that extra length more useful to tuck up under the floor forming a good bug seal. I see no signs of the noseeum unraveling on the raw edge after many outings (otherwise I would have finished the edge).

> Have you tried just overlapping the noseeum doors? I was going to try to do away with the zippers

Yep. I tried that first. Even mild breezes would "gap" the doors in the middle during the night. Then in would come the flying bugs while I slept.

Next I had the idea of using mini-binder clips to hold the doors closed. I took the edges of the two doors, rolled them into one another, then put three clips along the rolled edge. One at the bottom and two equally spaced along the 42 inches. This idea worked fine for a couple outings until I tested it in really gusty, high wind conditions. A middle clip would pop off when a strong enough wind blew against the noseeum doors.

Before I made doors, I considered just making a noseeum curtain, but when I calculated how much extra material is needed to be able to lift up the curtain to crawl in the tent(about a factor of two), I killed that idea. It would add too much unnecessary weight and size to the folded tent.

So I bit the bullet, went to thru-hiker.com and ordered a roll of #3 coil zipper and double sided pulls. I put the zipper in the middle (rather than the tent edge of the door for two reasons. First, the zipper is shorter (42" vs 56") and thus lighter. Second, the zipper in the middle is easier to get to by either of the two people in the tent. There is no reaching over the other person to get to a zipper along the tent edge. And finally I like the symmetrical design that allowed the doors to be unzipped and the tent body used as a 9'x7.5' tarp.

Tip: When sewing the noseeum to the zipper and tent body, make your stitch length long. I read that in the backpacklight forums and did this when making my tents.

I look forward to winter backpacking with the silvered tents. I found out last winter that they really do feel warmer inside than my Sierra Designs Lightening. And much lighter to boot.

> > Have you tried just overlapping the noseeum doors? I was going to try to do away with the zippers

Yes, I overlap mine. But I also put press-studs (snaps) at the overlapping corners to stop the doors flying open when a wind blows. Works well, also keeps the edge of the bathtub floor up.
.

Cheers

Nice looking tent, Roger. I don't think snaps would work well for this as it would limit the flexibility of being able to pitch the "A" at differing heights.

I wonder if a few strips of velcro would work? You'd need just small pieces on one door and the other door would have (mostly) horizontal strips, increasing in length closer to the ground. 4 would probably be enough. Based on Al's diagram, he made it so the tent could be anywhere from 66" to 72" wide (42-45" tall) so the lowest strip would need to be about 6" long.

> I wonder if a few strips of velcro would work?

Yes, and no.
Yes, it would work, but the hook part of the Velcro rips the hell out of the netting. A right pain.

Cheers

Al,
Stores near me don't carry "Extreme Application Packaging Tape" so I looked online ….

I see "Extreme Application Packaging Tape" (8959-RD) and "Premium Extreme Application Packaging Tape" (8959)

Do you know which you used?

Any 8959 is the same – just different packaging, length/width, etc. Al used a 1.88" wide roll that he cut in half with an exacto blade.

>I just put out samples of the white heatsheets material and 2 tapes for an extended exposure test.

FYI, I just brought the samples in after 2 months of being taped onto the red roof of my son's plastic fort. We've had very little freezing weather so far, but I don't expect that would matter much.

The LDPE Heatsheets material – even though quite thin @ 1 mil – didn't show any noticeable signs of deterioration! It didn't matter if the silver or white sides were up.

Both tapes yellowed at least somewhat, and it's obvious the 3M 8959 has less UV resistance than the 3M 2120 that claims to have 6X what "normal" duct tape does. The 8959 lost all its holding properties after maybe a month, while the 2120 still has a little tack left when removed. The 8959 even released from the Heatsheets.

I had planned to have the great majority of tape on the inside of the tent anyway. Unfortunately, I've been so busy with work and fixing up the house, I haven't had time to make a tent let alone go backpacking. :(

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the UV tests on the material and two types of tape. It is good to see the LDPE Space Blanket material holds up. I suspect mylar Space Blanket would also hold up well, since NASA wraps it around satellites. UV is much worse in space.

I have a question about the tape tests. Did you have any 8959 on the underside of the Heatsheet? If so did you see lose of holding properties for 8959 not directly exposed to the sun?

Al,
Sorry, I didn't think that would be an issue since it wouldn't be directly exposed in that case so I didn't test it. I simple cut 2 9" squares of Heatsheets and taped them down to the roof using the 2 tapes. I had to supplement one edge of 8959 after a month as it gave way from the roof. The 8959 on the other outside edge was totally missing within the past couple days.

I can try another test later once it's spring and we get more direct sun.

Hi Michael,

Thanks to your tests, we know to run the reinforcing tape
on the inside of the tent fabric. As a winter project
I am pondering building a Jay Ham "5 yards to SUL" tarp
using Space Blankets and reinforcing tape -just to see
if this low cost SUL material would work and hold up.

> As a winter project I am pondering building a Jay Ham "5 yards to SUL" tarp using Space Blankets and reinforcing tape -just to see if this low cost SUL material would work and hold up.

Al,
Did you manage to get this done?

How is your tent holding up?

Any new advice to share?

I'll FINALLY be building mine in the next month or so to prepare for a Rockies trip later this summer. I'm thinking of going with more of a flat tarp to setup in a half pyramid shape for ease of pitching.

> How is your tent holding up?

Hi Michael,

Tent is continuing to hold up fine on our regular scout outings since Philmont. I've replaced the ground cloth once, that is about it.

New advice to share… I continue to be amazed at how little condensation this tent design/material has. A similar design tarp I tested made of silinylon had droplets all on the inside of the tent body (overnight with no one in the tarp). I need to set a series of tests that are a bit more elaborate than the ones reported in backpackinglight a few years ago. They used only a small square of several different materials. It was a nice study that found (as I am seeing) that reflective materials had the least condensation of potential tent materials.

I'm also finding, now that it is getting hot here in Tennessee, that the having silver on the outside keeps the interior of the tent noticeably cooler. The tent I made with orange exterior and silver interior is hotter, and my silinylon tent is hottest of the three.

Cool (literally)! I'm hoping the anti-condensation properties are the same for silvered LDPE as it is for mylar. What I have is white on the opposite side so it should be relatively cool as well.

Al,
I'm impressed you could cut the roll in half. I didn't want to dig out my exacto, so just used a new utility knife blade and could only get through maybe 1/3 of the layers. So I used those up and cut some more, repeat….

I didn't seem to have a static cling issue. Maybe the fiberglass sheet (to be used above bath surround) I taped it down to (using everyday "magic" tape) helped in that regard.

My Heetsheets are 4×6 so I made an 8×6 tarp that I'll pitch in a half pyramid. Thus, I'll be adding 2 diagonal strips of the extreme application tape from the corners to where the trekking pole will attach.

Did you try the Jay Ham "5 yards to SUL" tarp?

Can you PM me so I can provide my email for quicker communication?

> Did you try the Jay Ham "5 yards to SUL" tarp?

No, I've gotten sidetracked. Instead of making Jay's tarp I've been busy testing ideas to build an under 2 lb version of my Nemo Morpho 2P. Actually not copying Nemo's design directly, but building a 2 person tunnel tent using inflatable chambers instead of poles. I'm still in the "colleting materials, testing construction techniques" mode right now. Presnetly, I'm leaning towards using aluminized nylon for the tent body rather than mylar or polyethelyne. Jury is still out on its suitability. But somebody has to try and let other MYOGers know.

Here is Prototype 1 (and likely the only one for now) of my 8×6 tarp in a quick to-the-ground pitch.

Max opening height is 41" with a 4' width in this pitch. Total body weight so far is 6.5 oz. 6 wire stakes are 1.0 oz. Are you sure your listed stake weight is correct, Al? You list 22 at 1 oz and mine are also ~1/16" dia and 7.5" long.

Still have the netting to add around the perimeter and opening and as well as a removable "storm door".

> 6 wire stakes are 1.0 oz. Are you sure your listed stake weight is correct, Al?

Your Tent looks nice Michael!

Your stakes seem quite heavy. I just pulled out 6 wire stakes out of my tent bag and set them on my scale 0.4 oz I was up to 15 stakes when the scale reached an ounce.
They are a bit heavier than when I first started my MYOG tent work because I painted them to make them harder to loose.

I'm looking forward to seeing your completed tent with netting and door. Nice work.

Al

Al,
They're 1/16 as close as I can measure on a standard tape, certainly no more than .070, but they are clearly stiffer & larger than my mower throttle cable, which is clearly less than 1/16. They are actually 8.5-8.75" in length before bending the hook on. They're still 1/3 the weight of my Y stakes. I'll be throwing a little colored electrical tape around the hook rather than painting.

I suspect mine will hold better but you use more. I just put a tieout in the middle of the 6' sides and every 2' on the 8' side, which will hopefully be facing the wind. I made the 4 corner loops large enough to take my Y stakes if desired. I made them all 1/2" wide with the 8959 since I could rip the 2120 even 7/8" wide.

Once I see how high up I can pitch it (my preferred pole attachment point is limited to 49"), I'll know how long the netting skirt needs to be. The door will simply be 3 bungee attachments I think inside the netting so I have a slight overhang.

I suspect setting these up in the wind is a challenge!

Al,
How did you manage to sew through the clear duct tape without gumming the needle? What size needle did you use?

I had hoped the duct tape would be enough to hold the slightly overlapped mesh seams together but no such luck. So far it is enough to hold the mesh to the body – we'll see once it rains tomorrow. Anyway, I had to sew the seams in the mesh and just left the tape there as extra support and that was quite a bad idea. Barely got a few stitches before the needle was sticky.

Anyway, I'm afraid I'll need to sew the rest of the mesh to the body but don't see how I can do it thru the duct tape.

> How did you manage to sew through the clear duct tape without gumming the needle?

Hi Michael,

When sewing the no-see-um to the taped edge of the tent body, I had to pause about every 12 inches and clean the needle.
I left the presser foot down and the material in place during this "pause". Just lifted the needle up out of the fabric, wiped down the needle pinched between my thumb and first finger to remove the majority (but not all) the sticky. This kept me moving without undue delays and without gumming up the whole works. OK truth be known I gummed up the works a couple times before stumbled upon the above technique.

I cleaned the needle thoroughly once I was finished, i.e. whenever I removed all the material from the sewing machine to start sewing something else. Or another no-see-um door on the other side of the tent.

> How did you manage to sew through the clear duct tape without gumming the needle?

It is possible to do this if you get a bit of felt and soak it in oil, and then wipe the needle down every inch or so. But sewing through any soft adhesive is not a recommended idea!

Cheers

Added a video of my MYOG tarptent.

I really apreciated the video of your tarp tent out of the LDPE material. This looks like a lot of fun trying to get this built. I will try a full Pyramid for myself and my kids. Thank you for the motivation.

Jason