Westcomb vs. Rab

RAB Carrington is a top tier company. Their quality is on par with companies like Arc'Teryx and Integral Designs. They are big enough to have access to all the best materials and technology but still small enough to only cater to the niche top. I have checked out Westcombe and their stuff while appearing a great value doesn't make me as confident as Rab's. But is event still is use with them? I noticed their bivys now use a proprietary event knockoff.

Everything I've used from Westcomb – eVENT Mirage rain shell, Pinnacle wool sweater, Nanosphere Syncro pants, 3 layer eVent ski jacket, and a heavy fleece pullover – has been great. Very durable, highly functional, looks great too. Westcomb was started by some Arcteryx folks and is similar – state of the art fabrics, pared down styling, athletic cut, and high prices. Backcountry.com often has Westcomb gear at a significant saving.

From the three companies mentioned, my first choice is Integral Designs and I have and use a LOT of their gear, was just wearing my "Thru Hiker" yesterday. Nobody makes better gear than Evan Jones does, absolutely nobody and I have stuff from about every highend maker.

Westcomb is my second choice, good gear, bit over-priced and trendy for my taste, made in Canada, as is ID. I never have thought much of Arcteryx and while a friend of mine, with whom I worked in the gear industry is now a major "boffin" with them, I have always thought that their gear was trendy, overpriced and much ot it's "rep" was just hype….still do.

Rab gear is made in China and it really does not impress me that much in respect of top quality or "cutting edge" design. I certainly would not call it "poor" gear, but, it is not up to I.D. or Westcomb.

One VERY fine maker of comparable products and a joy to deal with is "Wildthings" of New Hampshire and I have some gear from them and will buy more. I consider them and I.D. to be the premier makers of "softgoods" gear at present and pretty much buy only from them.

YMMV, but, this is what I think. HTH.

ID, in terms of clothing is no where near Arcteryx and Westcomb. The latter two produce cothing that borders on works of art.

I can't comment on Rab but in Europe they are primo.

What is this issue with Chinese workers anyway? Some of the worst made gear I have is made in Canada or the US.

Interesting feedback so far. I've played a little with garments from all of them (ie sales samples at least). Although Arc'Teryx fit and finish is superb, my personal experience has been 3 total garment failures from Arc'Teryx and I'm not particularly enamored with the company. The stuff I've seen from Rab and Westcomb looked to be roughly equivalent quality. Haven't seen the Westcomb for a while…

If Westcomb is regularly sold on discount, that's not good news as a retailer. But then, so is Arc'Teryx, perhaps some Rab stuff is, too? I'll have to check into that. See if it's more than the annual color change routine.

Thanks for reminding me of Wild Things. Interesting gear and stuff. Sadly, a bit more focused on alpine than what I'm looking for. But…

Any more feedback?

Opinions are like, well, we all know that one.

One of the problems with asking for opinions on a site of this type is that you will inevitably get a variety thereof and often from people who seem to make a hobby of posting on many such forums. While gear discussions can be entertaining and even instructive, they usually devolve into an exchange of personal opinions based on little field experience and mostly personal bias.

I will just say that, when buying several hundred dollars worth of merino wool garments a few years ago, I very carefully examined several brands of base layers and mid layers. The WORST, in terms of stitching and adaptable fit, was Arcteryx and it was VERY costly, as well. I bought Smartwool, but, after wearing it a lot on multiday wilderness trips all over B.C., I am not impressed and would not buy it again….this is typical of China-made gear in my four-plus decades of active experience.

I also bought New Zealand-made Icebreaker and it is VERY obviously the best and has performed better than the Smartwool and any other merino I have worn since my first in 1965. Interestingly, enough, I also bought MEC merino and I am pretty pleased with it and will buy more…and it is Canadian made, so, jobs stay here and I do not support a totalitarian nation that occupies sovereign Tibet and threatens sovereign Taiwan…..important to me, as many men in my immediate family served and bled in Canadian uniform in both World Wars.

Arcteryx appeals to those who seem to need to own the latest and most trendy and who hike in "cool" places and, from what I haver experienced, their rate of product return for "warrantee" issues is VERY high…working in the industry tends to inform one on such matters.

Now, if someone WANTS Arcteryx, fine, I don't care what anyone chooses, however, not one of their shells will come close to my ID eVENT shells in cold rain and my ID Rundle and Dolomitti jackets are the best I have used including my VERY COSTLY Richard Egge double duvet from Switzerland.

There are those who are impressed by warrantees that supposedly last longer than the Rockies will stand; well, my opinion on this is like Dan McHale's, "Don't need no stinkin' warrantee"….which is righton, IF, the gear is made right to begin with.

I have NEVER had a single flaw in ANY piece of ID gear I have bought since my first in 1993 and that is a LOT of it. Evan is an individualistic and oftimes somewhat abrasive guy, but, his designs and quality are simply superb, none better.

And, I DON'T support commie China, not now and not ever!!!

FWIW, Rab hard shells are sewn in Viet Nam. I own two of them and am pleased with their features and their quality.

I also like ID and concur with what Dewey said about their quality – top notch.

On the other hand, Rab had their sleeping bags sewn in China and until this year, I was very disappointed in the quality of construction and design of their bags. Crooked, inconsistent stitching, etc. They have re-designed their bags for 2010 and they look decent.

From what I have been told, you get what you pay for as far as mfgrs in China. If you want high quality, ya gotta pay the $$.

Dewey – I have a pair of ID Primaloft pants that have 1/3 of the waist band folded and mistakenly sewed direct from the factory in Calgary. I appreciate your hate for Arcteryx and MEC – don't understand it but respect it. What bugs me about your posts are the mass generalizations and the redundancy of your posts not only on this forum but others too. We know – ID and Hilleberg are the best and BC conditions require 4 season tents in the summer (I encourage you to read the recent Andrew Skurka article on fastpacking in Alaska and as well, the related links to what is possible).

As far as Chinese manufacturing – over 80% of all retail manufacturing in the US and Canada owned and sold by US and Canadian companies is done in China. Alternatively, there is joint manufacturing where certain WIP items are produced in China and completed in North America for sale. You may be surprised at how many items you own and use have been touched by overseas manufacturing.

Your comments remind me of what many said when Korea began to manufacture cars. Years later they are some of the best in the business.

I was told by an employee of Prolite Gear (who carries Westcomb) that Westcomb was started by folks who formerly worked at Arc'Teryx and were fed up with how the focus of Arc'Teryx was leaning away from mountain gear towards lifestyle clothing.

I have owned a Rab eVent jacket and found it too beefy/heavy for my needs but found its craftsmanship to be excellent. I have handled two of Westcomb's eVent products and they are crafted with great care using some unique and new techniques but I have no comment on their durability/performance.

I wonder if these guys would be open to North American distribution? And if their lineup would be attractive to a retailer & the buying public.

http://www.berghaus.com/thegear.aspx

I know my wife & I bought these online from a UK dealer…

http://www.berghaus.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=1705&Gear=2

…after much research, and after we returned the GoLite Reed pants due to a few critical "design flaws"

Berghaus is one of the big names in quality outdoor gear in the UK (clothing, footwear & packs) and has been for 30 years. They were one of the first companies to use Gore-Tex, in the late 1970s. The stuff is good quality and some is quite light. I used a Berghaus pack on the PCT back in 1982. It weighed 4.5lbs with a 100 litre capacity.

I've never used any Westcomb clothing but Rab clothing is excellent. I've been using Rab eVent jackets in the Scottish Highlands for many years and they've never let me down.

In 1975, I did a solo weeklong trek in the Valhalla's of SE-BC, a totally wild and very rugged mountain range where there were and are very few trails.

I bought a pair of Berghaus rain pants at a store in Nelson, my hometown, and used these for a week in severe rain. They were in shreds and tatters by the time I walked out of the bush at Slocan, BC., but, anything else, except perhaps "chain mail" would have been just as thrashed, in the 8ft. "Devil's Club" and 9-11 ft. in girth fallen burnt Cedars, with stub branches as hard as steel. I was very impressed by them and among the many reasons I am so opposed to buying China crap, is that one can no longer buy most UK and Euro-made gear here as this Asian junk now dominates the marketplace.

One of the major reasons for this is the major decline in the number of SERIOUS outdoors people as contrasted with the suburban recreational "day hiker". Obviously, while ANY maker can let a defective product slip by the "QC" and I have had issues with most,even the best gear, the majority of people now do not require "expedition" level gear and thus it is very hard for stores to sell….but, SOME makers STILL charge the price for crap that is trendly, cool and fails under field conditions.

So, while the excessive rhetoric that David chooses to employ is just nonsense as I have been a MEC member for over 37 years and would not …hate…any maker, there is a certain aspect of his comments that I do think I should reply to.

I am most humbly sorry that my posts bother anyone, however, I have never heard of Andrew Skurka and, frankly, I never base my opinions on anything, gear or field techniques, on reading what others may have done. I base them on actual personal field use and lots of it; I backpacked and lived in the wilderness on the Alaska-BC border, for three months alone, in 1972, was back in '73, then again in 2005, in 2008 and will be going north on Sept. 16th. next.

So, when I comment as to what I think the best choice for a given area, it is not a snide remark based on reading some tale of high adventure by someone else; I have used what I recommend and usually lots of other gear as well, in the situation under discussion and offer opinions based on that use.

I am pleased to see that David recognizes that my suggestions concerning appropriate mountain tents in B.C., among others, are realistic and that he now …knows… that this is the case. While I do not post often or very much, I do try to help where I can.

Another thought occurs to me, have you looked into PHD gear, a highend UK firm that I have had some contact with and they have a very good reputation….Sir Ranulph Fiennes, for example, simply raves about their down gear and a guy like him is worth listening to, IMHO. Just another possible option.

Sam, Chris and all- Thanks for the continued feedback. Sounds like a bit of a mixed bag, no clear preference. I'll check into Berghaus. Guess Rab is at the top of my list right now. Incidentally, Rab has a pull-over eVent shell @ 10 ounces coming for spring '10…

Hey Brad,

I can whole-heartedly recommend Rab clothing. A lot of the mountain guides I know hold Rab in highest regards. The quality is up there with Mammut, but Rab seems to push the envelope more on light and fast gear. Consider their 12oz eVent hood-compatible jacket (Momentum) and their eVent mountaineering tents and bivvies, and the Neutrino Parka (1 lb 5 oz). Their lighter-weight down products are more robust than Montbell and have more down (by weight) and higher quality (850 fill US).

I also find that their fit is spot-on for a more athletic cut (slimmer torso, long arms). Not the boxy cut you tend to find with some of the more mainstream companies. Rab is strictly about mountaineering clothing and gear – no lifestyle clothing will be found on their webpage!

Rab is also pushing hard to get break into the US market. Their prices seem low considering the quality, so I consider them an excellent value. I own several pieces of their clothing and am completely satisfied. Let me know if you have any questions about particular articles of clothing. Sorry I can't comment about Westcomb.

As for the above-mentioned slandering of the quality of goods made in China, consider Black Diamond's recent move. All of BD's skis used to be made by Atomic in one of Atomic's factories. BD went to China to build a factory to the very highest standards. Their new line of skis (anything built within the last 3 years) all come from this Chinese factory. The craftsmanship and quality are truly impeccable. Atomic watched as these better skis were rolling out and tried to get some skis made at this same factory, but couldn't due to the exclusive contract from BD. How the tables have turned!

Here in the UK, Rab is a well respected, top end, mountaineering brand. It is definately not a 'fashion' brand. The folk you see wearing and using Rab gear are serious outdoor folk.
If i buy Rab gear, i expect quality.

Brad:

I'll speak nothing of Westcomb because of my little knowledge of it.

But I will speak for Rab – I own their Drillium jacket, which is a 14.11 oz rain jacket /w 3-layer eVent. It has a high collar independent of the hood and a huge hood. The sleeves are long and accommodating and the drop tail is massive – bigger than I have ever seen. The cut is athletic and excellent. I highly recommend their stuff. Watch Prolitegear.com for deals.

Brad,

I can not comment on Westcomb or ID, but can say a few words on Rab. I consider them at top end of the quality scale, they really make very good gear and their eVent stuff is innovative and pushing the envelope – they got a truly UL eVent jacket at 340g! I just this week wrote a small review about their Microlite Vest on my blog.

Brad:
Really like Westcomb's stuff- the skeena and the rebel hoody are staples for me in Jackson. Perfect for year-round mountain activity. It's definitely high quality stuff, no complaints. And people always ask who makes it, so it must look good too. General opinion, but I thought I'd stick a woman's opinion in!

I own ProLite Gear, and we are dealers for each of these brands. I personally know the owners of each of these companies and have field experience with most of their products. They are all high quality brands, and the owners stand behind their product in case you encounter a problem.

For functionality Rab is best. The height of the pockets are compatible with climbing harnesses and backpack waist belts. They use wire stiffened hoods that are helmet compatible, and have 3 way adjustments.

For quality Westcomb is the highest. They use 1-to-1 woven fabric on some jackets, higher stitch counts than any other jackets, more glue, and the smallest seam taping of any jacket we have seen.

Integral Designs gets the edge for true minamalist peices. Integral Designs beat everybody else to market with eVENT jackets.

Both Westcomb and Integral Designs are sewn in Canada.

My 2 cents :)

Thankyou, I very much appreciate your precise, experience-based opinions. After, reading your post, I called Westcomb, here in Vancouver and spoke with Gabriel and am goin down there soon to check out some new softshells. I find it very hard to get pants, especially and W has a couple of models styled as I prefer my "strides".

I will add, as a former specialty store owner, manager of another and gear salesperson here until my wife told me to retire at 55, (she did not have to repeat herself), I am most impressed by your blunt honesty, integrity and lack of all-too-common "retail bulltwaddle".

I have purchased from your business and would again and will tell folks here that yours is a good place to buy good gear.

Wow! Great feedback from everybody! Craig, really appreciate your insight and thoughtful evaluation of the three. Now the question is, what do I do?

Buy all three. See, we agree again!

Well, I actually did laugh out loud, David. I wish!

Owning a small consumer-electronics A/V business, one of the problems has always been manufacturers dictating that a dealer needs to carry certain sku's, or commit to a certain $$$ opening-order buy-in, or commit to a certain $$$ of business per year.

I guess I'd start by sounding out the North American or International Head of Sales with each company to see how easy they are to work with in this respect.

I would imagine some of the contenders will eliminate themselves based on their demands or expectations.

As an aside, I just had to order 2-pr of inexpensive gloves from an online Rab dealer in the UK since Rab's [virtually non-existent] North American dealerbase was completely out of stock. Aaargh. Then again, going to Rab & saying, "dudes — I just wanna carry your entry-level gloves" would be good for chuckles all the way around…