My General 3 Season Gear List

Hi Dan,
I noticed that you have a frypan and a spatula on your list but no fishing gear – so why do you need those? Maybe you have some interesting menu items?
Could you ditch one of your 2 towels and use a bandana for your second towel?
And hey, thanks for being so considerate of the rest of us on the trail, but do you need the deodorant?? ;->
Now you have feedback from a complete amateur!!
Mel

Thanks for chiming in!

Notice that the quantity for the frypan is 0. I have the frypan and use it occasionally (which is why it's on the list), but wouldn't bring it normally which is why the quantity is zero on this list.

The spatuala/flipper is a large flipper from home (that sorta works as a spatula) for stirring my dinner as it cooks. Now that I think about it more, I could probably just use my spork (although a spork would suck for pancakes). I should leave this behind….thanks. I would only need it if I was flipping pancakes or something. I do like pancakes on hiking trips because they are easy and quick plus the mix is light. The frypan is good for this, but I could probably do them in the pot.

How does everyone flip stuff like pancakes without a flipper? Or does no one eat pancakes, fish etc?

The MSR packtowl is a small one (about 12" x 12") for doing dishes mainly. The other Bilt towel is a lightweight medium sized bath towel. For a towel it's really light, but I maybe could just use my shirt. I like to go for a swim/bath when I arrive in camp for the day and the towl is nice for drying off. If I used my shirt and I only have one shirt then I'd have a wet shirt in camp. I could just wear my insulating layer while it drys, but its often late in the day so I'd probably wind up wearing a wet shirt the next day. This isn't the end of the world though….maybe I should suck it up and leave the towel behind. I like that you brought this up. I never considered not bringing the towel. My wife and I definitely shouldn't bring two towels because she has one too.

I need the deoderant if I'm hiking with my wife :) Otherwise I could leave it at home. I do leave it at home for 1 night trips and I could leave it at home for longer trips if there was ample bathing opportunities.

Since it's a list of gear, I'll just list my thoughts:

-Ditch the pad stuff sack, stash the pad with your clothes
-Ditch the bowl, eat from your pot–if you're w/your significant other, she can bring a bowl
-Don't need flipper w/o frypan
-Ronson lighter
-Have you ever used that much campsuds?!
-You're backpacking, man… easy on the deoderant. It's a dirty game!
-probably need longer bear rope…

Agreed on replacing the fleece.

Do you really need rainpants? For myself I find that unless it's quite cold and windy, I'm better off without them when walking because with them on I get wet from sweat. In camp I get into my shelter fairly quickly in conditions where I might be tempted to wear them.

A rain skirt, like ULA's model at 2.5 oz might be a better choice, http://www.ula-equipment.com/rainwrap.asp
Since I use a poncho, it works as pack cover plus jacket plus rain skirt all in one …

-Ditch the mug and bowl. Your pot can serve the same purpose.
-Replace the Miox with Chlorine or Iodine tablets (less than 1 oz).
-Too much campsuds, ditch or bring less.
-Too much deodorant, ditch or bring less.
-Consider switching to Alcohol stove.
-Replace Rain pants with ULA Rain Wrap (2.5 oz)
-Replace NF Venture Jacket with O2 Rainwear jacket (5 oz)
-Replace Knife with Buck Hartsook Ultralite Knife (0.5 oz) or something similar.
-Consider switching to a Tarp for major weight savings, this could be extremely cheap if homemade.

These suggestions will not cost you much money.

-Sid

For deodorant I have used Iodone swabs. They don't stop the sweat but they do block the stank w/ their antibacteral properties. I've gotten about 2 days of non-to-minimal stank w/ 1 application. You also said you use one towel for dishes… What I have done is taken a cheap dish sponge w/ a scouring side and cut a small 1" x 2" square from it. That has worked great and weighs 0.05 oz. Then I dry my dishes w/ my pack towel or hankerchef if really needed otherwise I try to air dry. You can probally replace your camp towel with, and I'm not kidding…. a SHAM-WOW! as seen on TV. They are light and will work well. Available at Target i believe. Some would say ditch the towel and use a hanky but I personally need a towel. You may find as far as cutting that all you really need is a small swiss army knife, just enough to cut some string or trim some mole skin.

No need to buy anything new (except a puffy layer to replace the one pound fleece). I created a list of stuff to leave behind. And I editorialized too.

Subtract some stuff and you'll do great.

NIX LIST:
=======

Sleeping pad stuff sack

Bowl

Spatula

Pot bag (oh please)

MSR 1.0 liter pot (you don't need two, just take one)

Pack Towel

Ronsen Lighter (you don't need three fire starters, take a paper book of paper matches in a tiny ziplock, these are the lightest thing going)

Camp suds (way too much)

Deodorant (Uhhm, was this a test to see if someone on the BPL forums was paying attention?)

Toilet Paper

Trowel

Gore-tex socks? What are these for?

FLEECE (16 oz is too much) Puffy preferred. Get a down coat from a second hand store. Much warmer, and lighter.

KNIFE – 4.5 ounces? No way. A single edge razor blade weighs 0.1 oz.

You could nix a few stuff sacks and replace them with a trash COMPACTOR bag.

Also – 16 feet isn't long enough for the bear cord.

Thanks for all the comments. I appreciate them.

Mike C: Notice the quantity field beside the items. For some stuff it's zero so I'm not bringing it normally. So I don't plan to bring the gore-tex socks, 3 fire starting methods or 2 pots.

BTW, this is my gear list when I hike with my wife. Which is why I have stuff like a 1.5L pot instead of the 1.0L.

Stuff I am okay with ditching:
– Bowl (eat from pot)
– Spatula/Flipper (I'll use my spork)
– Pot Bag (ok you got me….I feel silly 4 having it on there)
– Knife (that Buck Hartsook Ultralite Knife looks nice)
– Most of the Campsuds
– NeoAir stuff sack
– Fleece (I work for helly hansen and they have a 800fp insulating jacket coming out in 1-2 months so I'll pick this up cheap as long as its as light as I expect).
– Rainpants (fine….I'll ditch them cuz my Patagonia hiking pants dry fast).
– PackTowl (I'll bring a small 1"x2" sponge…not sure it's much lighter though. The packtowl is 11g)

Stuff I don't want to ditch:
– Toilet Paper (I just can't do it…I get crotch rot as it is).
– Deoderant (I'll bring a smaller one, but I'm usually hiking with other people and I get fairly offensive B.O. without it).
– Mug
– NF Venture Jacket (I can't ditch presents from my wife)

Areas to ponder:
– Ditching MIOX for chlorine tablets (I'm uneducated in this area…time to do some reading)
– Switching to alcohol stove

Closing comments:
– the 25g Nalgene food bottles are small bottles (Campsuds size) for stuff like margarine, oil, maple syrup, ketchup etc. Perhaps I should use ziplock bags instead. The bottles seem safer but the ziplocks should be fine.

– yeah 16ft is too short for bear cord. At my local outdoors store they only had 16ft left of the lightest cord. I would have got more if I could. I would like about 20-25ft of cord. I will buy some more.

Here's an updated gear list. I haven't changed the fleece yet since I can't buy the down jacket for another month or two. I also havent't added potential purchases like that sweet 0.5oz Buck knife and the bit of sponge. So far I've shaved off about 1.5lbs which means I can hit UL territory if I share the shared stuff like the tent, stove, pot etc.

Dan,

for deodorant mix a cup of baking soda with two table spoons of corn starch. IMO this works better than any store bought brand you will find, including the antiperspirants that contain some nasty chemicals. Put a small amount in a tiny ziploc depending on length of trip. All you need is a pinch every day or other day (you or those with you can decide that ;). Wet under your arms or don't dry under arms after showering before putting on. I use this at home as well and have not bought deodorant in years. Eco friendly and it just works better. You can also use it for foot odor.

As far as the campsuds, which is way overpriced IMO, buy a bottle of Ecover dishwashing liquid instead. You can get it at Whole Foods and other similar type stores for about $4 for 32 oz. This is great for just about everything. I use it as a natural shampoo everyday at home but it is also great on the trail. Shampoo, bodywash, dishes (obviously). Natural ingredients, biodegradable and it works really well and is much cheaper than Campsuds. Get the chamomile and marigold scent. The lemon scent is odd to say the least.

I would also get rid of the PR, as someone else said, and use alcohol. I would also get rid of the 4.6 oz pot lid and lifter. Hopefully your wife won't get angry but hide it in the closet somewhere. Not sure what part of the weight the lifter is of the 4.6 but combined foil and a lifter should be under 1 oz.

Dan,

I've looked at your notes, and I've added some of my insights:

_____________________________

Dan wrote – PackTowl (I'll bring a small 1"x2" sponge…not sure it's much lighter though. The packtowl is 11g)

Mike replies – – – – – Nix the 1 x 2 inch sponge and 11 grams turns to zero!

_____________________________

Dan wrote- Toilet Paper (I just can't do it…)

Mike replies – – – – – You should say, more correctly, I just don't WANT to do it. I know, from a lot of experience teaching, that it CAN be done.

_____________________________

Dan wrote- Deodorant (I'll bring a smaller one, but I'm usually hiking with other people and I get fairly offensive B.O. without it).

Mike replies – – – – – Fairly offensive? You are a human being, live the dream, it's okay to walk away into the mountains and get smelly! It's part of the fun!

_____________________________

Dan wrote- the 25g Nalgene food bottles are small bottles (Campsuds size) for stuff like margarine, oil, maple syrup, ketchup etc. Perhaps I should use ziplock bags instead. The bottles seem safer but the zip-locks should be fine.

Mike replies – – – – – WARNING! Do not put oil in ziploc baggies! This won't work, I know from experience.

And please read this article:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/quick_healthy_meals_with_an_ultralight_cook_kit.html

I address the bottles for oil, and what is the lightest…

– also –

You can camp without ketchup and maple syrup. Those are HEAVY!

_____________________________

Dan wrote – yeah 16ft is too short for bear cord. At my local outdoors store they only had 16ft left of the lightest cord. …

Mike replies – – – – – Just go to the hardware store and get some thin nylon string. It'll work fine. You'll need at least 45 feet, trust me.

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Dan wrote – I also haven't added potential purchases like that sweet 0.5oz Buck knife and the bit of sponge.

Mike replies – – – – – Nix the sponge, you'll be fine without it. And, no need for the knife, just a 5 cent single edge razor blade is plenty.

Read this article:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/ultralight_knives.html

.

A friend of mine used a Miox water purifier once on a trip with 7 scouts and it let us down. Too much fiddle factor. Chlorine Dioxide much easier, or depending upon where you hike, don't treat unless needed.

You are in the canadian coast? Thats the cleanest water imaginable!

Drink from springs if you think they are clean. There is minimal water bourn illness reported in the costal range.

read this excellent article:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/sipping_water_drinking_untreated_backcountry_water.html

Wow Mike….you've got a great knowledge of the articles here on BPL. I'm off to go read all of those.

I'm currently doing research into alcohol and esbit stoves. I like the idea of these stoves, but I'm a bit concerned about how long they'll take. I'm usually cooking in a 1.5L pot for 2 people and I don't want it to take 20min just to boil the water. It seems that most people using these stoves are cooking only for themselves and thus use smaller pots with less water.

Regarding toilet paper…..yeah I could do it. I actually probably would if I was doing longer solo hikes. I just know my wife (who is my most regular hiking partner) would never understand. She wouldn't touch me all trip :)

n/m

I've made some new changes to get down to 10lbs….well I'm not quite sub-10lbs yet but I'm pretty darn close (and my shelter is a 2 person one that will often be shared).

Main Changes:
– Using MSR Carbon Reflex 2 in footprint/fly mode (outside bug season)
– Bought 45ft bear bag cord as recommended
– New lighter toothbrush, travel sized toothpaste (which I'll half empty)
– Bought 0.5oz Buck Hartsook knife (Partly because I'm a sucker for nice knifes, but I do also use them all the time. I gut fish, cut rope, slice meat etc.)
– No stuff sack for NeoAir
– No MugMate for coffee (just roll cowboy style)
– Bringing smaller 1L pot
– No deoderant
– Less toilet paper
– Added Canon 780 IS camera (just got it back from warranty)
– Assumed the purchased of a Western Mountaineering Flash jacket (ok this is a big assumption, but my only fleece was recently stolen so I got nothing right now. I just gotta convince my wife that this jacket is worth about 10x what I could get a fleece for at work (Helly Hansen)).

Dang I'm close to 10lbs….10.04. Gotta shave a bit more….maybe it's time for an alcohol stove and ti mug.

Looks great–You can probably break that 10# mark w/o spending another dime… surprised that neither Mike or I haven't said anything about it yet. Start looking at straps to shorten or cut off your Jam. Don't forget things like the hydration sleeve. You can cut another 4 ounces or so…

0.64oz? Just have a good movement – under 10 lbs in no time (Dan you have a problem….;) )

I have done some modifications to my Jam to remove weight. I removed the hydration bladder, replaced the drawstring with lighter cord and cut most of the straps. These mods brought me from 755g to 697g. I haven't cut the side compression straps yet though because I've been unsure if I want to lose the ability to clip stuff to the back of my back. I think I'm going to trim these tonight which should shave off another 1/2 oz or so.

Hey, Dan- No need to get too carried away… I still left a 6" tail or so on the side compression straps so I could accommodate random stuff. Don't forget ice axe loops, excess hipbelt webbing, etc…

I just cut a decent amount off the side compression straps, while still leaving ample length for them to do their job as side compression straps. The total weight saved was 12g (almost 0.5oz).

Other Jam mods I've made previously are:
– trim sterum strap
– trim both shoulder straps
– trim waistbelt strap
– remove elastic loops off waistbelt strap. These are no longer needed once strap is the proper length
– remove hydration bladder
– replaced drawstring with a thinner one.

Off all these mods, the bladder and cutting the excess waist belt strapping were the biggest weight savers. The other straps are pretty light so you are only saving a few grams per strap.

My Jam now weighs 688g which is down 67g from the 755g that it weighed when it arrived.

I also snipped a few grams here and there from my stuff sacks and realized that I was carrying 2 too many pegs with my tent. So now I'm sub 10lbs :) It's nice to be part of the UL crew!

It's amazing how small weight savings here and there add up. Just a few weeks ago my gear list was over 13lbs and I didn't think there was anything more I could cut.

VERY jealous of your setup!!! I am at 13 lbs now and have no idea where to start shaving more weight.

I think your scale might be reading slightly low though. My platypus 1.0L with just a normal cap is 1.5oz on my scale…If my scale is off, my bad! If not, everything in your pack could possibly weight a tad more.

A 1 liter platypus bottle should be about 0.9 oz. Mine weighs that. Others seem to weigh 0.6 oz, but I don't know what year those were made. See the platypus website for weights too.

Matt – is 13 pounds too heavy for you?

I have looked over Dan's list and with no disrespect to him, that list would never work for me in the Banff, Jasper area. I would be way too cold.

David, at first I thought it'd be warm enough; he did mention the Flash jacket, hooded, puffy. For lows around freezing I'll use a 260-ish weight wool and a down vest or down jacket. But Dan doesn't have that midlayer, either. Dunno. The Flash packs a reasonable amount of warmth for the weight. For another ounce the Flight would add more loft but lose the hood… A midlayer might be a good thing to (gulp!) add? Depends on how much you're pushing the seasons, though.

Dan, one other thing I'm looking at would set you back maybe 45 bucks… your cookset weighs 9.4 ounces. Pot, lid, lifter. Pretty heavy for a 1L setup. Evernew 0.9L short is 4.1 ounces unaltered… ie w/lid and handles, for about the same volume. If you switch to a bike spoke bail you can cut another 1/2 ounce (haven't decided if it's worth keeping that way). Shedding the lid saves you another ounce or so, but I've found that the stock lid is far less fuss than foil.

Cheers-