Highest Winds Experienced in Pyramids / Mids / Hex / Tipi etc. ? (+ Intro)

Chris,
The weak link is the pole. Fabric, lines, anchors, etc. are pretty much a given. But one using a Carbon Fiber trekking pole is going to go down before the one with the 1.50" three piece aluminum one.

The stock mids at the Titcomb Basin NOLS base survive with no/few problems.

Know what fails, not just that it failed.

Hey Greg,

I definately understand that weak link. I also therefore understand that a CF pole will break before an aluminum pole. The problem for me is trying to figure out "when" the carbon fiber pole might break, so that I might get an idea if it would be enough for what I want to accomplish, or if I may want to go with an aluminum pole, or perhaps another style of tent. Actual user reports will help me try to figure all of this out. I also don't know if it's completely fair to make everything else a "given". As I understand it, a tipi will shed wind better than a mid, so less stress should be put on the pole.

What kind of weather conditions are at the Titcomb Basin NOLS Base Camp? What are the stock mids like? Aluminum poles?

Thanks for the comment.

I'd like to join the search for failure info on pyramid shelters under high wind/ snow loads. I have a Go-lite Shangri-La 3 (the new version of the Hex) and I hope to push it to winter alpine use this season.

I can confirm that the MLD Trailstar can take 50mph, I (stupidly) set mine up on the first attempt on some local hills. Check out the my vid on youtube – MLD Trailstar.
I went for it over a mid as there isn't anything to break other than the seams that is ;-)

I did find this bit of info on the forums:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=3253

Jeff Jackson mentions that the Hex 3 he was in withstood 100mph winds…

Thanks for putting that up on Youtube, Barrie. The setting looks familiar … I'm sure I've seen it on MLD's site :).

Hi Greg- welcome to Backpacking Light!

Great question- I don't have much info for you here but I do have one comment:

"I also therefore understand that a CF pole will break before an aluminum pole."

No way! This totally depends on the construction of the pole. I've seen aluminum poles bend and snap where carbon poles held strong. This is not a matter of the material used, but the constuction of the pole itself. Now, if you're comparing a thick aluminum pole to, say, a Fibraplex- sure the Fibraplex will snap soon. But if you're looking at a Luxury Lite trekking pole, all wimpy aluminum poles will fail earlier. Easton Carbon FX poles are weakest at the ferrule, for example. Why? Because the ferrules are aluminum!

My point here is that carbon being weak is a misconception. It all depends!

Doug,

Thanks for chiming in. Bad misconception on my part! What beefy carbon fiber poles are out here that will adjust to work under a mid?

Also, no big deal, but my name is Chris, not Greg!

Well Erin McKittrick and Bretwood Higman used a pyramid shelter (from MLD, I believe) on their eleven month trek on the BC and Alaska coasts.

I don’t recall seeing wind speeds mentioned in their journal but they did encounter a blizzard or two

Hi Chris,

Nice to see another freelance nature photographer and naturescapes.net devotee over here. Whenever someone asked a backpacking question on naturescapes.net I always sent them here.:) A few thoughts.

1.) I am wondering if a tripod could be used to support a pyramid tarp in some way. This could provide a lot of strength potentially.
2.) Some mids can be pitched using four trekking poles in an upside down V shape. This is a good option if there are two hikers, as it gives more space. It should also be stronger.
3.)If strength is your key objective you could use a proper tent pole (aluminum or CF) as opposed to trekking poles. Combined with some good pegs, and strong guylines you probably wont get a more wind resistant light weight shelter. If you want even more of a bomber you may have to look at four season tents, but anything can be blown down in a strong enough wind, especially by freak gusts.
4.)Some info here http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=3893
5.)Tipis may be a bit better than a mid in winds as the are circular. http://www.kifaru.net/TIPI2009.html

I am planning on getting a Duomid later this year, so am also interested in user reports in high winds.

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the links. I was aware of their use of the MLD Mid, but hadn't seen that picture. Pretty impressive, even if they did make a big wall to block some of the wind :)

Hey Jason,

Likewise glad to see a fellow NSN'er.

1.) A tripod would definately be sturdy. Maybe devise some sort of "pole tip" to screw onto the screw on the top plate where a ballhead would normally go, extend the tripod, yet keep the legs closed so they wouldn't take up all the interior space. Of course, I just realized I would need to set this up as basecamp more often than not when heading out to photograph sunrise and whatnot. I can deal with not having my trekking poles on the photo shoot, but not my tripod!

2.) I wonder if just two trekking poles could be pitched in the Duomid in an upside down V to provide more space for 2 occupants?

3.) I'm really interested in this next tent, whether it be a Duomid, MLD Supermid, or even a Hilleberg Dome of some sort (Jannu or Soulo potentially) to be able to handle whatever I'm going to reasonably throw at it. I use a tarptent or tarp / bug bivy combo for east coast 3 season suff, and honestly I'm sure any of the mid/pyramids would be fine for east coast winter, except maybe in the most extreme of places we have above treeline. But, that's what I'm trying to figure out! How far I can push a mid, tipi, etc. In most cases it will be overkill, but they are so light and spacious anyways, that I think it will be worth it to me to only need to get one shelter for harsher weather as opposed to several. I also plan on camping above treeline in the rockies next summer, so in places like that I might actually need the wind stability.

4.) The TiGoat Vortex 6.5 is especially nice looking to me, but the 650-700$ price tag is hard to justify over something like an MLD Supermid.

potential of mids not exactly light weight though :)

Haha … yeah.

Just thought of another question. Well, 2 really.

1.) If you pile snow around the base of your mid to block off all the wind and spindrift, and your mid doesn't have a peak vent, how do you get oxygen inside?

2.) The Duomid has a peak vent, but you would want to close it to block out spindrift and perhaps wind-drive rain. Supposedly it's closeable, but how exacty is this done? Would it ever be enough to keep out fine spindrift?

-1.) If you pile snow around the base of your mid to block -off all the wind and spindrift, and your mid doesn't have a -peak vent, how do you get oxygen inside?

Chances of you sealing off all oxygen with snow around the perimeter are low. I think condensation would be much more of an issue than oxygen…although with a mid condensation is typically not a big deal due to the slope of the walls. Obviously, cooking in that environment is a bad idea.

2.) The Duomid has a peak vent, but you would want to close it to block out spindrift and perhaps wind-drive rain. Supposedly it's closeable, but how exacty is this done? Would it ever be enough to keep out fine spindrift?

There is a "wand" that holds the vent open. To close it, you take the wand out and it has a velcro closure. It has a good waterproof seal when closed (hose-tested) and I would assume spindrift would also be no problem there.

Spindrift still could be an issue under the perimeter and each time you get in and out of the shelter. A fabric inner would be the best bet but careful sealing around the perimeter with snow would likely do the trick in most situations.

Chris,

I own many tents and three mids (BD Megamid, BD Megalight, and MLD Duomid). In addition to backpacking I do kayak touring and packrafting (I noted your kayaking avatar).

By a wide margin my most comfortable mid in CA winter costal storms (70 mph gusts, 30 mph sustained) is my Duomid. None of my mids have failed but the noise and side panel deflection is dramatically less in my Duomid. This is primarily because of its lower profile and integral mid-panel side tie outs. For a center pole, I use either an adjustable length aluminum hiking staff or a 4-piece carbon fiber kayak paddle. Pole deflection has never been noted.

When pack rafting, I use a spare 4-piece paddle or stick to create an inverted V for center support. The packraft is then used as an elevated sleeping platform in the center of the Duomid.

Richard,

Thanks very much for some real numbers that your Duomid has been through. 70mph gusts is pretty windy!

Anyone else have any stories to share? I know some of you B.C. / Rockies people use Mids in the winter! :)

I've been out in Kifaru tipis quite a bit, and they can withstand wind speeds well in excess of 50 MPH.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Kifarutube#play/uploads/0/fVjMW3faBiI