Most efficient gravity filter system – need market update

I hope thats the problem Ken, but when ever i try to increase the flow rate from the faucet past a trickle, all hell breaks loose.
>>>>It should flow at a steady rate.

I am still looking for a faucet that will accept the adapter. In regards to that, that little round black piece that is removeable inside the adapter, i have to remove that in most instances to get the faucet to go onto it. The faucet head is too wide in almost every case.

>>>>picture is "black piece" seated. I need to really SEAT the rubber end on the faucet end! If you look you will see where the faucet was designed to seat.

I will try again, but it seems that no amounr of seating will keep that thing from EXPLODING off the faucet head. Maybe if i let it run for 15 minutes on slow i will be able to increase the pressure. Would you mind saying how long you let it run slow before you increase the tap pressure past the point of initial flow? And how long you leave it on the high setting as well.

I will try again, but it seems that no amount of seating will keep that thing from EXPLODING off the faucet head.

>>>>You need to hold it and feel the amout of water that you let flow to the amout of "gusto" you need to hold the rubber pic with.

Maybe if i let it run for 15 minutes on slow i will be able to increase the pressure.

>>>>I do NOT think that is necessary. While as described above you should have a fairly steady tream…..cannot quantify.

Would you mind saying how long you let it run slow before you increase the tap pressure past the point of initial flow?

>>>>>As I have describe above. Once I get a steady stream flowing from the purifier while holdin I keep in that attitude for a minimum of 3 min.

And how long you leave it on the high setting as well.

>>>I do not rush the flow.

If this does NOT work for you may I suggest contacting Sawyer at johntsmith@sawyer.com

Give me some feedback after you tried the above method and measure the weight ofthe purifier after a minimum of 3 min.

I dissembled the Katadyn "Bottle Adapter with Activated Carbon", Part #8013450, and found the empty body weighed about Edit: 92 grams. (the post filter is still damp.)

Edit: Bad Math or Synaptic Disfunction-
The Weight is about 3 ounces – 3.25 with damp carbon inside.

One thing that helped was squeezing the ballooning portion, not allowing it to ballon as the pressure increased. Making it a two hand job, one on the top, holding the adapter, the other the pressure point. In my previous attempts i noticed that there was an air gap in the top of the clear plastic tube that never really got filled with water. When i squeezed the ballooning portion, it went away. Will test in a bit to see how it filters now. I've preprimed this thing like 10 times. Hope it still works.

I achieve a good flow rate when im prepriming but not in gravity mode. Its flowing but its not as fast.

I did a test it took about 3 minutes to do 1/4th of a liter. This was with no charcoal element, just the purifier itself for testing clarity.

Send the purifier back to Sawyer would be my suggestion!

"I achieve a good flow rate when im prepriming but not in gravity mode. Its flowing but its not as fast."

Ike, I've got the Saywer Filter not the purifier like yours but it does take a bit to get the flow rate going. It's usually slow for the first 1-2liters and then starts flowing like there's no resistance. Perhaps your sample test is using too little of 'dirty' water?

Got free next day shipping from walmart.com, replacement by thursday.

Did the weight of the purifier come close to 9 oz?

"Should i poke a hole in the back of my 2 liter platy?"
>>>>NO. This will not cure the issue.

Looking at your set up pic in this thread, the line from your "dirty bag" looks long enough to have flow at of a liter in at least 5 min.

Send John Smith of Sawyer johntsmith@sawyer.com a email and relay your issue. I'm sure he will give you better advice on how to solve your problem that any of us. Make sure you explain your setup verbally and with pics. It's worth the time and effort for what you paid for the purifier.

Got he new purufier and pre primed it. The weight is 8.8oz. A big differen e! I could not get the old one over 7oz no matter what i did. Prepriming this was much easier. Proceeding with tests later tonight of the whole setup including the AC filter.

So after prepriming I tested the purifier . I put 2 liters in the dirty bag and got a poor flow rate, about the same as above. I took the purifier off the clan bag and observed the outward flow. I would describe it as a fast drip, not a stream. This is he first liter it has purufied so I will give it several more shots because others reported a slow rate that sped it after a few liters.

pp1:
held the adapter on for the first minute on very low flow. Water began to flow through the filter after about 30s equal to the input pressure. I began to slowly raise the preasure, not holding the adapter on. Increasing just enough sothat the adapter did not pop off with pressure. Let it run with the tap as open as it would go eithout balooning the adapter.

Pp2:
repeated the same procedure but held on the whole time so i could increase the pressure.

John T Smith(sawyer) responded:
"Make sure your vessels are vented, otherwise the water will not flow."

I cut a large hole in the top of my dirty platy to be sure, no change. Either this thing requires a massive amount of watwr pressure to preprime properly, im doing something wrong, or i got another dud.

Ike, I’m sure you’ve seen the photos of my setup with the filter as you were posting in that thread as well, but I thought I’d reiterate my experience.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=38558

I’ve cut out the entire bottom of my dirty bladder to function as a scoop. This also allows an ample amount of air to vent as John T Smith (of Sawyer) recommended to you. When I suggested that the flow rate increased after the first liter or two I meant that in each filtering episode after the first 1-2 liters of slow filtering the 3rd-nth liters were very quick in comparison. This would repeat after each filtering episode and not a one time only sort of thing. I also have to mindful of my hoses as they sometimes kink and essentially stop the flow on either end of the filter. I also have to ensure that the “dirty” bag is as high above the “clean” bag as possible for a greater amount of water pressure.

There may be some differences in filtering times due to the fact that I have the Sawyer filter and you have the Sawyer purifier. I’ll try and set mine up tonight and get you an accurate time to filter 2L. I’ll do it twice to show the discrepancy with first filter time.

EDIT:
I forgot to mention one more thing. Make sure that the “clean” bag is void of any air before connecting the hose to it. Any air will prevent the bag from filling fully as the combined pressure from the volume of air and water would equalize with that of the gravity of your partially full “dirty” bag.

I am using a Sawyer Filter.

I primed by filling and squashing a 2 liter Platy, shaking the filter until the air was out, and the output stream was running solid.

The distance from the bottom of a 2 liter Platy to the top of the filter was 42".

I ran about 2 liters through the system getting it hung correctly and figuring out the process. It was flowing pretty fast.

Flow rate for the Filter was 55 seconds per liter, over 3 consecutive tests (6 liters total).

When I added the Katadyn Activated Carbon post-filter, the flow rate dropped to 105 seconds per liter, over 2 consecutive test (4 liters total).

I dont think we can accurately compare the filter the purifier. The filter size is smaller and thus flow rate will be affected in some sense.

Just trying to help, as I’m very happy with mine.

I just pulled the flow charts from Sawyer’s website

Filter Flow Chart
Purifier Flow Chart

These show that a 5Gal bucket with 3ft hose will “filter” 19.4 gallons per hour at sea level and “purify” 3.6 gallons per hour.

That roughly translates to the purifier taking 5x as long to filter the same quantity of water. Greg’s post said it takes his setup with the filter 55seconds per liter. Not sure if we could extrapolate that to meaning that your 1L setup would take about 5 minutes per liter? Back to the Sawyer charts, with 1Gal = ~3.79L, you’d be getting about 1/4 of a liter per minute with their 5Galon bucket setup. Meaning 1L in about 4 minutes which is on par with the extrapolation of Greg’s report.

However, in the field you’ll have about 2L of “dirty” vs their 5gal so the head pressure is significantly different. Perhaps sitting or standing on your “dirty” bag can help get the pressure up to a reasonable flow rate.

EDIT:
Your Purifier Test #1 said:
“I did a test it took about 3 minutes to do 1/4th of a liter. This was with no charcoal element, just the purifier itself for testing clarity.”
This is on par with my assumptions without a way to increase the head pressure it is what it is.

"However, in the field you'll have about 2L of "dirty" vs their 5gal so the head pressure is significantly different."

My 2L Platy measures 14" tall, and a 5 gallon bucket is 14" deep. So the same pressure in either case.

All of the recent tests I have done have been without the AC filter, so it was all purifier. The thing thats ghrowing me off are the rates that Ken Larson reported in his review. Faster than mine.

Ike,
When I primed my Filter it was obvious when all the air had been replaced by water. It no longer made any sounds when I shook it.

Same for your Purifier?

I still have a little sound of water bouncing a bit.

From Kens Review of the Purifier:
"From my use with a PointZEROTWO Purifier I can say you will see a one minute+/liter flow rate."

In this thread Ken Larson said that it took 226.7 seconds for 1L. In his review it took 171seconds on average. The difference could be use over time. His 226.7 second time for 1L is almost 4 minutes which is what I've predicted. I'd like to see how long it takes you to filter already "filtered" water or both you and Ken filtering 1L of Aquafina to get as many variables constant. The difference in times could be local tap water additives.

EDIT:
From Ken's Review

"If you are interested in Flow Rate through a SAWYER FILTER SP -121 (NOW – SP122) PointOne Filter or SAWYER PURIFIER -125 (NOW SP – 135) PointZEROTWO Purifier refer to their website http://www.sawyerproducts.com/research.htm From my use with a PointZEROTWO Purifier I can say you will see a one minute+/liter flow rate."

I believe this is a typo, if you look over his charts in the same thread "TEST C" with the purifier it averages 171 seconds.

Good points eric, i will have to time mine with already purified water(both charcoal and purifier) to see whats going on. Do you think using the platypus elbows that are supplied with platypus hosing and connect to the platy bags could affect flow. I cant find any straight down connectors to use instead. Kens setup was straight down.

I would imagine that any type of disconnect/change in flow direction would effect the flow rate.

Check out US Plastics for adapters and disconnects. I’ve heard about them before from the forum but not sure who to give the credit too. I also have not done business with them so you’ll have to let us know.

I have the proper adapters, i just have not made a cuben bag yet to attach them to. Will do that tonight. Might make it extra big since its so light, that way i can get more H20 in there, faster purifying. Once its done i can just toss the leftover water.

Im starting to think the purifier would be better in an inline setup instead of a gravity. But that raises freezing concerns.