Storing the TT Scarp

Henry, thanks for the comprehensive answer, I have to confess a slight mistrust of exoskeleton pole configurations, but I'm sure it will be up to all but the most severe conditions.

Franco, I picked up 4 obsolete golf club shafts for 5 pounds from my local golf club repair shop today, and took the saw to three of them. My winter shelter (Which sports 45 degree shedding angles all round) just got 7oz lighter – now under a kilo, and big enough for two plus winter kit and indoor cooking. The weight saving will go most of the way to covering the Ti pipe stove I'm building. :-)

Nice to know that us (backpacking) beggars can benefit from the leftovers of the sailing ,kite, archery and golf communities…
I have seen the Titanium pipe (Ti Goat) but not a stove. I think that the Kifaru stove is provably more practical (panels rather than a cylinder) but I never seen nor used any of them…

Franco

"And yes I would suggest that if you like the Akto, you should get one of those, however you are not going to fit inside that…"

Laying down he will, with room to spare. Sitting up? Not so much.

Franco,
That is a really helpful post, especially with the great pix. When the tent first came out, I immediately asked my wealthier brother to get me one for Xmas; however, the storage issue was a concern. So I have removed the struts, and have substituted lighter ones with end plugs made from arrow nocks, and a fine cord loop at one end to ease removal. Also removed the X-pole attachments and substituted carbon for the arch pole to get the weight below 2.5#. When I informed Henry about this, he thought it might be too much to have to install 8 struts before each pitch, but it works for me, and I can keep all my carbon poles in the sack with my air core foam pad where I like them, and roll the tent up into a small stuffsack they way I like to carry it in my pack. For those not willing to go to such lengths, your post is the answer. Oh, and enough already about the Scarp vs Akto. That was a different thread wasn't it?
Regards, Sam Farrington, Chocorua NH

Sam

When you modify a shelter like you have done, the correct and proper thing to do is to start a thread so that we all know.

A minimum of 3 pictures is required. Without pictorial evidence, nothing has happened.

We need to know weight savings too, some will wet themselves with excitement if it is over one ounce.

I already called the Scarp propped up with trekking poles Scarp Light ( ©TarptTent Downunder ) so maybe yours can be Scarp Lighter (although silnylon is highly flammable, so maybe another name is required)

What happens now if you want to attach the "freestanding" poles ?

I happen to know that you have mountains and snow over in NH, so what's up ?

My tents are always rolled up with the poles (the ones that need poles..) and stored in the front pocket. But you are not the only one that likes to dismantle and stuff, some do that with the Rainbow's cross apex pole section, so show us some pics.

BTW, Henry finds my inside poles set-up a pain, so I can see why he would not do the Dance Of Joy (performed on snow totally naked with ribbons attached to the the wrists around a large open fire) thinking about removing those 26 struts every time.

Don’t worry about thread shift, blame the Family Guy for that.

Franco

Well I could always be put on ignore. What's ironic is that if one searches, they will see that I fully supported the changes made to the 'general design' by Henry. In fact, having owned and used extensively an Akto, I was one of the first to say that the Scarp did away with any shortcomings the Akto had (in fact, go over to a certain site dedicated to those in England and Scotland and see me single handedly defend the Scarp….until Franco chimed in, of course).

All I originally meant was that we have seen the basic design before in the Akto. And then it felt like a Monday.

Now how do you store a Hogback?

Carefully

Thanks Franco!!
This really helped me a lot. Especially the great pictures

Just back from a two week TGO Challenge crossing of the Scottish Highlands on which I used the Scarp 1, without the crossover poles. On previous Challenges I've used the Akto. Both are excellent tents for this often wet and windy trip.

With the Scarp 1 I liked having two vestibules and a slightly roomier inner. Ventilation is great, though of course there was still copious condensation on calm nights, but the raised flysheet does make the tent breezy. With the Akto I only close the inner door when insects are biting, with the Scarp 1 I closed the inner doors whenever there was a breeze.

When it comes to snow the Akto is okay as long as you shift the snow frequently. If there is too much snow for it just to slide off – when it's a foot deep round the tent there's nowhere for it to slide! – it has to be shoveled off or else the ends of the tent will collapse. The crossover poles mean the Scarp 1 retains its structure in heavy snow. Here's a picture showing the Scarp buried in snow.

Oh, and Franco's packing method is great – when the weather is okay! I've now packed the tarp several times in very wet and windy weather where as soon as the pegs are removed it becomes a thrashing mass of wet fabric. I found the easiest way to pack the tent then was to remove the pegs from one end and from the extra guylines I've added to the pole sleeves and the vestibules, slide out the main pole, then grab the five short poles and move to the pegged end of the tent. Then as I remove the last three pegs I add the short poles to the ones I am already holding. This leaves me with the ten short poles held together and the rest of the tent blowing out in the wind. Rather than try and fold the tent up I then simply roll it round the short poles before stuffing it in the bag.

And for winter/snow I use I think it makes more sense to compare the Scarp 1 with the Hilleberg Soulo rather than the Akto. I've also been testing the Soulo over the last year and it is excellent for winter use. It was pitched at the same time as the Scarp 1 in the heavy snow. Here it is:

Thanks Chris. The $25K question is….without the crossing poles, which shelter do you prefer in windy, rainy weather? The Akto or the Scarp 1?

G'Day Chris
The type of wind you describing is what im planning on purchasing a scarp for. You refered to extra guylines? Did you add extra tie outs on the pole or use the one there. Im not so much worried about snow but how was it in the wind without the cross poles. Does it suffer from the slightly higher sides or is it not much of an issue? I dont realy care if it s better or worse than somthing else just wether it will do the job.
Thanks
Darren

David, that's a very difficult question. I am very fond of the Akto, having used one since 1993, but the Scarp 1 is lighter, roomier and has two vestibules. I do like the down to the ground flysheet on the Akto, despite the restriction on ventilation. I haven't used the Scarp 1 in Scottish midge season yet – I think the raised flysheet could make it harder to keep the midges out by burning a mosquito coil in the vestibule, a technique that works well with the Akto. I shall find out. Both tents perform well in wet, windy weather – I don't think there's anything to choose between them. The heavier fabrics and components of the Akto probably mean it will last longer but they are why there's a weight penalty.

Darren, I used the tie outs on the poles. I haven't added any new ones. With guylines attached to these I found the Scarp 1 as stable as the Akto. The raised flysheet does mean that wind blows in – this reduces condensation but makes the inner cooler. On windy nights I've found I need to close the inner doors, something that is unnecessary on the Akto.

Thanks for that mate
Darren

Does anyone know how much extra the solid inner weighs compared to the mesh inner on the Scarp 2? Just curious at this stage, as I'm going to be getting the mesh inner and can't afford both versions, but I'd be interested to know.

Thanks Chris.

Franco,
Thank you for your advice on posting. Judging from these threads, there may be others also in need. Alas, like the late Collin Fletcher, I no longer have much use for cameras in my old age, and do not have a working one at present. But seeing that it is your photos which help to make your posts so interesting, and since this will be the first summer in ages I don't plan to drive to COLO (surgery), will get some pix going if time allows. Regret if nothing is happening for you without pix. And no, I don't camp in blizzards as many of you do. Since I live right at the foot of Mount Chocorua, there is endless daytime snowshoing with my shelties in the winter. I would not have obtained a Scarp for winter use, but from the helpful info in the posts, expect that it will do fine in the summer in COLO and some of our great new trails back home, like the Cohos Trail and the Grafton Loop (partly in Maine). The extra floor space in the Scarp, compared to the Akto, is where the shelties will go (they are small shelties). There, I did it, compared the Scarp to the Akto in a thread about something else.

Chris,
Have read and enjoyed several of your books and articles in "Explore" magazine. Once placed a mosquito coil inside a vestibule and got very sick. Had to get up at night and air out the tent before going back to bed. Perhaps you have coils without permethrin, which is what many of them use. Hope you will reconsider.
Sam Farrington, Chocorua NH

Sam, I've used various coils over the years and several do have permethrin in them. Ventilation under the flysheet seems to keep the air clear enough in the tents I've used and I've never had problems with them. I don't burn the coils for hours at a time, only when I'm cooking in the vestibule and so need to have the inner tent door open. At night I bring the unlit coil inside the inner tent. If the vestibule is full of midges in the morning – not uncommon in the Scottish Highlands in summer – I light the coil, unzip a corner of the inner door, place the coil in the vestibule then close the inner door. It takes a few minutes to clear the vestibule of midges.

I also have used coils over the years with good results. It just takes a few trys in order to find the right procedure and it's a little different for everyone. Off topic a bit, I just got my Scarp 1 about a month ago and have gotten in a couple of outings. Like Chris T. I have a concern over the high-cut fly. I plan to order some fabric from HS and sew 4 extensions onto the fly. I will just velcro them up inside the fly at the center pole when I need max. ventilation.

I just received my Scarp 2 but will have to exercise extreme self control and wait to pitch and seam seal it until I have the time next week.

I think the tent is very well designed, like Henry's other tents I've seen, and the best double wall tent for the weight and space I could find, and I'm very happy it's finally out. That said, I would prefer a fly that can snug down for windy wet or snow conditions when I want it to, and stay open when I want it to. Instead of endlessly debating Scarp versus Akto, I may make a DIY adjustable fly extension for the Scarp 2, using 1.1 oz silnylon and a few velcro tabs to hold up the fly when I want it up for ventilation. I feel no need to do so in the middle of summer, but I think it would be very useful for winter and the shoulder seasons. It's a relatively easy way to get the best of all worlds for little weight. You can always build snow walls around the base of the tent, as Henry pointed out to me, but you can only do that with snow.

Another idea Franco suggested to me is to make a silnylon ground sheet with sides long enough to clip up higher around the inside of the tent and shield from wind. Franco thanks again for sharing your Scarp creations.

As Henry and others have pointed out, every tent (and every piece of gear for that matter) involves a set of compromises – on weight, strength, space, conditions, etc. I think the Scarp 2 is the best mix for me and for most people, and near perfect for me with my mod.

In the meantime, I'm excited to enjoy what I believe is the best 2 person double wall tent for the weight out there. Thanks again Henry. I may have to pick up a Rainbow solo shortly.

How do shelters have such a tendency to multiply? I'm already 3 going on 4 (I know I have nothing yet on other addicts here).

EJ, self control is over-rated. Run out and set it up whenever you feel the urge! And then take some pics and run back inside and upload them for us to see. =-)

Update – I wound up having to return the Scarp 2 because the mods I needed to make to extend the fly to make it adjustable to the ground would have cost too much $ at a great local gear repair shop. I picked up a Big Sky International Revolution 3P Porch version instead, which is excellent and very wind stable – while it came with a mesh interior, BSI is coming out with a fabric interior shortly which I'm trading in for.

However, I just heard from another BPL poster that Henry told him he'll finally be offering an extended fly version and a retrofit kit shortly, though no idea when these are supposed to come out. I imagine these would be available for winter.

I'm still looking for a single tarptent, but waiting to compare the Six Moon Designs Vamp (designed for taller people) with Tarptent's offerings – the Vamp is being prototyped now and Ron said it would be available by this fall or winter (likely winter).

Why trade for the fabric interior, why not just buy it and then get double use out of the tent? Or won't they just sell you the fabric interior?