Do hiking poles build upper body muscle?

"But the combination of strength AND endurance is what gets them through" absolutely, unlike thru-hiking which is really mainly endurance and little strength

"sometimes just barely, along with a whole lot of mental toughness and a bit of luck."

I might argue that there is more than a 'bit' of luck ;)

I am both an ex-rock climber and ex-mountaineer. And yes, expeditions style climbing is catabolic, though for me it usually comes as much down to not enough calories and recovery time as anything else. And recovery from expeditions involved both lots of food and, for me, lots of time in the gym building strength back up. And sleeping!

But I don't think we are talking at cross purposes here. Poling high rep, day after day, for months on end, is a very sport specific exercise which I can't see much potential for cross-over applications, even in mountaineering. Poling works a very small muscle group in the back of the arms to build up their endurance. Mountaineeriing hits shoulders, biceps and core abdominal strength much more, and when it does rquire triceps involvement it's usually to do an all out chimney manouveur…a low rep high strength type movement, by contrast to poling while walking. I HAVE built my triceps up in the past by doing cross-country skiing sprint training and races, but those are short intense bursts of poling, and aren't really relevant to thru-hiking.

"Poling high rep, day after day, for months on end, is a very sport specific exercise which I can't see much potential for cross-over applications, even in mountaineering. Poling works a very small muscle group in the back of the arms to build up their endurance."

I don't agree, Lynn. When I am using poles, especially on high intensity day/training hikes, not only the triceps, but the lats and anterior/posterior deltoids(the anterior deltoids are involved in lifting the pole on steep uphills where just swinging them forward with a wrist flick is not feasible), at a minimum. Not so sure if the rhomboids and teres maj/min are involved. Don't get me wrong, BTW. I am not advocating "poling" as a primary way to train for climbing/mountaineering. It does, however, benefit muscle endurance if you are doing it while hiking, not to mention increasing the load on your cardio-pulmonary system. I'm a believer in getting my training benefit wherever I can find it, be it in the gym, on climbing walls, running, snowshoeing, hiking, and, yup you guessed it, poling. It all adds up.

"Mountaineeriing hits shoulders, biceps and core abdominal strength much more, and when it does rquire triceps involvement it's usually to do an all out chimney manouveur…a low rep high strength type movement, by contrast to poling while walking. I HAVE built my triceps up in the past by doing cross-country skiing sprint training and races, but those are short intense bursts of poling, and aren't really relevant to thru-hiking."

Climbing involves about every muscle in the upper body(including the brain) at one time or another, even though the use of your legs is, or should be, far more important. Not to mention flexibility. One who climbs primarily with their upper body will experience fatigue far more rapidly, no matter how strong or endurance trained they are. As far as triceps specifically, mantleing and down climbing involve them, as does stemming. All of these are common climbing moves.

The OP wanted to know if using poles builds muscle. Probably not, but they do build endurance and that should be inform his decision on whether and how much to use them, IMO.

For me, the answer is absolutely. I was shocked at how ripped my arms were after the PCT. I didn't realize it was happening. I've got a picture at the finish line where I was flexing my muscles just as a sign of strength with finishing. It's absolutely the strongest that I've ever been. That combined with the extremely low body fat was cool.

Another less desirable effect that many people experience is tendonitis and/or carpal tunnel. Many people give up using poles for short periods due to pain.

"When I am using poles, especially on high intensity day/training hikes"

That pretty much says it all. The difference between a thru-hike and a high intensity day hike are vast. On the day hike, the opportunity to gain strength and muscle are quite good if the intensity is in the right range. On a thru-hike…??

"not to mention increasing the load on your cardio-pulmonary system"

Again, this is great for a training hike, but a disadvantage on a thru-hike where your cardio-pulmonary system is working overtime already.

"As far as triceps specifically, mantleing and down climbing involve them, as does stemming"

Again it seems we agree. But again, I would consider those to be relatively high intensity moves rather than high rep low low weight moves. A good climber should be able to lower their bodyweight plus pack by their triceps alone (and still have plenty of strength in reserve). This type of strength is not generally needed or generated on a thru-hike by using poles.

"The OP wanted to know if using poles builds muscle. Probably not,"

A good summation, unless you have very little arm muscle to begin with. I don't doubt there are many thru-hikers in this situation, for instance your average adult female (or inactive office bound male) has pretty poor upper body strength, so may actually gain some strength and muscle from using poles. But if muscle gain was a primary goal, there are a lot easier and quicker ways to accomplish it! And I suspect the use of poles may mostly just help reduce muscle loss (as opposed to promoting significant muscle gains) from an activity which would otherwise not use those muscles very much for long stretches of time. In other words they probably reduce atrophy. This combined with the fat loss that usually occurs can make for a very ripped (as in lean with muscles showing) look at the end of a thru-hike. I mean, heck-when dieting for bodybuilding shows, my cardio training would hit 2 hours per day towards the end, plus an hour of strength training, all while resticting calories. Do this for three months and VOILA! But even under these 'ideal' muscle-sparing conditions, there is still some degree of muslce loss (unless you use steroids) from the calorie restriction. Thru-hiking is just a lot more cardio and calorie restriction without the strength training.

"That pretty much says it all. The difference between a thru-hike and a high intensity day hike are vast. On the day hike, the opportunity to gain strength and muscle are quite good if the intensity is in the right range. On a thru-hike…??"

Sure. On a thru hike you do the same thing as a high intensity day hike at a lower level, day after day. Using poles for 4-5 hours, or more, has a number of benefits, one of which is building endurance. Do it a 2-3 times/week and you'll be able to "hit the deck running" on a thru hike, building ever more endurance as you go. It's not the only approach, but one that will work. I don't use it to build strength, BTW.

"Again, this is great for a training hike, but a disadvantage on a thru-hike where your cardio-pulmonary system is working overtime already."

If your cardio-pulmonary system is working overtime on a thru hike, you have a problem. Thru hiking is an endurance activity where you are functioning at well below VO2 max. The high intensity workout is meant to increase VO2 max. With increased VO2 max, comes the ability to hike faster without approaching VO2 max. I don't see this as a disadvantage. Also, a training hike is just that, training for a greater purpose, not an end in itself.

"Again it seems we agree. But again, I would consider those to be relatively high intensity moves rather than high rep low low weight moves. A good climber should be able to lower their bodyweight plus pack by their triceps alone (and still have plenty of strength in reserve). This type of strength is not generally needed or generated on a thru-hike by using poles.

Apples and oranges again, Lynn. They are definitely relatively high intensity moves. But you seem to constantly view strength as a one off proposition, throughout your posts. You mentioned in a previous post that you spent a lot more time building strength than stamina when you were climbing and, for the life of me, I cannot see how you did serious mountaineering following that regimen. Strength moves have to be repeatable, time after time after time, and that is what endurance is all about. Using poles is not the primary way to achieve climbing endurance. Indeed there are many much more effective ways, e.g. traversing back and forth on climbing wall, spending a day yo-yo-ing up and down sport routes, etc. My point was that hiking using poles on days when you are not climbing has a positive endurance effect on your upper body. As for lowering you body weight plus pack using only your triceps, hmmmmm….

I'll sum up my position on my way out the door: The OP asked if using poles on the AT would build muscle mass. Opinions vary but the concensus seems to be that they don't. I tried to introduce another beneficial effect of using poles, i.e. endurance. Maybe I shouldn't have, but it seemed to me to be too important to overlook, since thru hiking or any multi day backpacking trip, for that matter, requires considerable endurance from the entire muscular system. From there the discussion, at least as far as you and I participated, seemed to resolve into a strength/big muscles vs endurance question. I will readily admit that strength is very important in backpacking and even more so in climbing,and I have spent a lot of time down through the years trying to develop it. I have spent even more time developing endurance and skill sets, because I am certain that they are far more important, in the end, than brute strength. But I have yet to find in any of your posts the slightest recognition of the importance of endurance in general backpacking activities and climbing in particular. That being the case, there is not much left to discuss. I stand by what I have posted and invite comments from the rest of the community, hopefully to arrive at a concensus that will be of benefit to all.

"But I have yet to find in any of your posts the slightest recognition of the importance of endurance in general backpacking activities and climbing in particular."

I would have thought the importance of endurance in thru-hiking was so self-evident that it didn't need to be stated.

"If your cardio-pulmonary system is working overtime on a thru hike, you have a problem. Thru hiking is an endurance activity where you are functioning at well below VO2 max"

So endurance athletes don't tax their cardio vascular system? Again, I can see the point of adding extra load/exertion to a training program to prepare you for an 'event', but I see little value in adding that extra load while doing the 'event'. I think of a thru-hike as being the equivalent of a 'race'. Yes, you train hard, and may train with extra weight or speed etc…but on race day you would keep your weight to a minimum and pace yourself. Maybe we have different ideas of what is 'training' versus what is the real deal?

"From there the discussion, at least as far as you and I participated, seemed to resolve into a strength/big muscles vs endurance question"

I am only referring to the OPs question of "building muscle". If the OP had asked if using poles on a thru-hike would build upper arm endurance, again it would have almost been so self-evident that the answer was yes, that there would have been little left to add.

"You mentioned in a previous post that you spent a lot more time building strength than stamina when you were climbing and, for the life of me, I cannot see how you did serious mountaineering following that regimen."

I was distinguishing between "climbing" as in rock climbing as in lazing about in the sun and doing the occassional grunty pitch versus mountaineering which is much more endurance oriented. Even so, most of my endurance training came from general activities, including backpacking, kayaking, judo, x-country and backcountry skiing and swimming, as well as a big dose of mountaineering. Keep in mind that as a female, endurance and flexibility activities came more naturally than strength, so investing in the strength side of things paid off handsomely. If you are already a strong male, but lacking in endurance and flexibility, then you probably be better off putting your energies elsewhere. By the nature of the OPs question, I am assuming strength and muscularity are not his forte. In none of these sports have I never (with the exception of x-country skiing) found my triceps to be the limiting factor, so that is why I don't see the benefit to other sports to be gained from the kind of endurance that thru-hiking with poles would bring. But we totally digress as the question was not about endurance. Anyone who is contemplating a thru-hike will realise the importance of that component of fitness! Whether or not you need upper body endurance on a thru-hike depends on whether or not you use poles….

"As for lowering you body weight plus pack using only your triceps, hmmmmm…."

Not sure what that means, but that ability probably saved my life when I broke my leg on a solo alpine trip, days from any trail. I literally had to lower myself off the glacier on my triceps for a lot of the descent. That's not the sort of strength I could have gained by endurance poling!

Wow, I appreciate all the responses. I am just a normal 57 year old hiker who was looking for some thoughts on what the benefits would be to my upper body when I do my thru. From all the responses it looks as though there will definitely be a benefit in an endurance/lean/strength kind of way. I look forward to seeing the actual effect. Thanks again for all the responses.

the answer to this is no.

I told myself I was done, but this is just too much fun, not to mention educational, mutually I hope.

"So endurance athletes don't tax their cardio vascular system?"

Not to the point of working overtime, at least not in the case of thru hiking. A thru hike is not a race, Lynn. But, if you are talking about racing, save the overtime for the latter stages of a race or brief tactical manuvers.

"but I see little value in adding that extra load while doing the 'event'. I think of a thru-hike as being the equivalent of a 'race'. Yes, you train hard, and may train with extra weight or speed etc…but on race day you would keep your weight to a minimum and pace yourself."

Who said anything about adding extra weight? As for speed, it's wise to have the capability held in reserve for certain situations, or just if that's the way you want to go at it. It doesn't mean you have to use it. Of course you pace yourself if you want to finish a thru hike. That pace will vary according to your native abilities, training, and style, not to mention that in longer thru hikes a certain pace is necessary if you want to finish before the weather forces you out of the mountains.

"Maybe we have different ideas of what is 'training' versus what is the real deal?"

Not sure what you mean by this. Could you clarify?

"Not sure what that means, but that ability probably saved my life when I broke my leg on a solo alpine trip, days from any trail. I literally had to lower myself off the glacier on my triceps for a lot of the descent. That's not the sort of strength I could have gained by endurance poling!"

OK, I'll clarify; Your triceps don't function in isolation.
Try doing the lowering move you describe with one arm while placing your opposite hand behind the shoulder involved. You will feel the posterior deltoid, trapezius, teres group and rhomboids all tense as they work to support the manouver. What you describe required strength, to be sure, but also a lot of endurance, however you gained it. Poling, if you engaged in it, would have HELPED acquire that endurance. What you were doing solo on a glacier(probably crevassed?), days from any trail is an interesting question. Sounds like a great story over a couple of beers.

Anyhow, I'm glad you agree endurance is important, to the point of being self evident.

Well, I never walked with 'proper' trekking poles. Not the fancy kind. I pick up a stick sometimes going up a steep bit. I couldn't be bothered carrying it when I don't need it. – It turns out to be more difficult to find a suitable lightweight tent without owning a trekking pole though, and you can't rely on the gods ALL the time yea?

I found that simply carrying a heavy bag for an extended period of time (years) will build upper body muscle.

I observed people in Holland using trekking poles. On tarmac bicycle paths. I still can't get my head around it.

> I observed people in Holland using trekking poles. On tarmac bicycle paths. I still can't get my head around it.

They like the continuous click-clack noise.

Cheers

Of course poles build upper body strength. That's pretty obvious.

But that is not why I use them.

As I get older, which is proceding at an alarming rate, I find that poles both improve my stability and better distribute the work and at the end of the day I feel better. And this encourages me to spend more time in the weeds. Such is the value of poles. Not falling down, not over-stressing my knees and not flattening my feet are benefits derived from the use of poles. Fact is I do not hike without them, though for many years I scoffed at those who did. But then I was in the clutches of vanity and pride both of which have pretty much gone into remission.

So yeah, I like my 4WD.

Gandalf and Moses, man, they both knew something about walking with a stick, and I can't imagine either of them running a trail…or lifting weights…or spending much time in front of a mirror. But I bet both of them would have well-appreciated an inexpensive pair of Komperdells.

You know, in preparation for intramural competitions.

John

"Gandalf and Moses"

Its fitting that fictional people would appreciate fictional advantages. ;)

I was hoping Brain would chime in!

To Bill, the original OP, I would sum up like this:

If you do a thru-hike, and have no upper arm development at the start, you will have even less upper arm muscle at the end. If you throw poles into the eqaution, you may gain a small amount of muscle, or you may simply lose less than you would without poles.

If you do a thru-hike and currently have lots of upper arm muscle, you will have less upper arm muscle at the end. If you use poles for the thru-hike, you will likely lose less upper arm muscle than without poles. So better to think of poling as a means to minimising muscle loss rather than gaining muscle.

You WILL gain endurance capacity, and likely you WILL lose enough bodyfat to make your muscles more visible. If you use poles that endurance capacity will include your upper body.

Now I've had about enough! Being of Polish decent I am used to, and can even enjoy a good round of Polish jokes, but to suggest that Poles gain no muscle while hiking is absurd! I swear you bunch of WASP's have gone over the line…Wait I gotta go my Dad needs help changing a lightbulb.

"Wait I gotta go my Dad needs help changing a lightbulb."

Don't try to help him all by yourself. :)

Tom gets it, don't sweat it. I got a brother. Or maybe we can get loco rouge.

"Or maybe we can get loco rouge." Nah. I don't think he wants to play with us anymore. ;}

Tom are you being sarcastic? what are you from the '90s?
Cheers

Jeremy spoke in Claaaaas Today!
oop ooop ooop

"Tom are you being sarcastic? what are you from the '90s?"

Never made it that far. They flunked me out back in the 60's.

Oh sorry then um
"here's another clue for you all, the walrus was paul"

Theoretically, if the hiking poles where tall enough that your feet would not touch the ground, then you would build upper body muscle as you hiked in a Cirque du Soleil manner.

+ clue:
number nine, number nine, number nine

"Theoretically, if the hiking poles where tall enough that your feet would not touch the ground, then you would build upper body muscle as you hiked in a Cirque du Soleil manner."

Hmmm, I spent 3 months straight on elbow crutches, and didn't build any noticeable extra muscle. Maybe I'm just the sort of freak they are looking for @ Cirque du Soleil ???

If you want to build some upper body muscle while hiking, instead of UL trekking poles, get a stout wooden hiking staff. It should be at least as tall as you are, 1 1/2 to 2" thick, and made from oak, ash, hickory, or osage orange. In fat, get two – one for each arm! If those don't build up your muscles over a hundred mile hike, nothing will!

I know old thread. But I found a photo of myself flexing my arms at the end of the PCT. The hiking poles made me seriously strong. I don't normally have muscles like that, nor do i lift weights.