Mar 25, 2009 at 9:49 am #1235072
I've been playing with the idea of trying to set the unsupported speed record for the Tahoe Rim Trail and was wanting to get some clarification of what you all consider "unsupported". The reason I ask is that on the east side of the TRT, there has been placed a water cache by the Tahoe Rim Trail Assoc. If someone were to take water from this cache, have they in effect been supported?
Also, I can't find any official time for an unsupported hike of the TRT. I know a few people tried to set one last year but all parties weren't successful in finishing. I think Brian Robinson hiked it with his wife in 4 days. I'm thinking I would be satisfied to do it in 72 hours, leaving me with roughly 56 miles a day with some sleeping time each day.Mar 25, 2009 at 9:57 am #1488698Mar 25, 2009 at 10:01 am #1488700
Ben 2 WorldBPL Member
@ben2worldLocale: So Cal
Caching sure sounds like support to me…Mar 25, 2009 at 10:22 am #1488712
Yeah, I was afraid it would be seen as supported. Deep down I also thought that, just didn't want to accept it. That makes for a long dry stretch, or a 2000' drop to a water source then back up again. Oh well.Mar 25, 2009 at 12:45 pm #1488745Mar 25, 2009 at 2:16 pm #1488764
Does anyone know what the unsupported speed record is? I found a cool website with lots of different trail records: http://home.comcast.net/~pbakwin/FKT.html
Also, can anybody hike with you on an unsupported attempt, or is that also "support"?
Since I live in Lake Tahoe, I'm going to try to thru or section hike all of the TRT a few times before I test myself with a stab at 72 hours. I'm currently mulling over whether or not I really should spend any more money to lighten up my load. I'm thinking a Nunatak arc a.t. or MLD short quilt would be cool, but that's a fair bit of money to drop to lower my current base weight by 8 oz.Mar 25, 2009 at 3:10 pm #1488779
Sounds like some serious fastpacking Zach! I haven't heard of any offical times, but im sure TRTA would have an answer to that question. When are you planning this trip? Regardless of supported/non-supported, 3 days would be out of control, I love it! Im hope to thruhike the TRT in the early summer-aiming for closer to 4 days-we'll see how i feel! Goodlight-TravelsMar 25, 2009 at 3:58 pm #1488790
Aaron–I live in Tahoe City, and if you aren't a total weirdo or anything, I would be more than happy to help you out if I'm able to. I will be gone for about a month starting mid-June, but other than that I'm free to help.
I'm up in the air about when to try–earlier in the year equals more water but higher temps and some snow, later in the year equals much less water, great temps and no snow.Mar 25, 2009 at 5:09 pm #1488808
Hey there is a 100m Ultra on this trail every year (it was March 18 this year) & they run 100m in around 19 hours, I don't know your background but you could run the trail without sleep straight through. I can be done & if you want to tackle that i'm in. StephenMar 25, 2009 at 5:18 pm #1488813Mar 25, 2009 at 5:23 pm #1488817
Yep your right the registration ended march 18, I looked at it wrong,
StephenMar 27, 2009 at 1:15 pm #1489247
So the TRTA emailed me with the fastest times they have on record, but there could very well be faster undocumented times. They didn't know if Whit Rambach was supported or not, but all the others definitely were. I wish there was a more concrete time for Whit, as that could be 96 hours and 1 minute or it could be 119 hours and 59 minutes. So it sounds like if somebody goes unsupported and breaks 96 hours they have a new record. Pretty doable, I would think.
Here are the times:
Tim Twietmeyer – 45 hours and 50 minutes continuous running – officially timed
Whit Rambach – 4 days running – 2004
Betsy Nye – 55 hours and 22 minutes 2004
Peter Lubbers – 57 hours 54 minutes 2008 officially timedMar 27, 2009 at 3:11 pm #1489271Mar 27, 2009 at 7:15 pm #1489316
I am going for this record as well this year.
There is no "Official" Unsupported Record" right now.
It is 100% up for grabs.
Klas Eklof went for the U/Supported Record last year, but had some stomach issues or something like that and stopped on the 2nd day.
By the way, where did you find that Betsy Nye did the TRT in 55 hours???
I am trying for the 2nd fastest time as Unsupported which as far as I know is Peter Lubers time.
Peter even stated that he has the 2nd fasted time.
That's O.K., my goal is for a sub 55 hour time anyway.
Now I'll just have to keep it instead of having a 2+ hour cushion.
The 55 hours is to have to maintain the 3 mph average.
By the way, Unsupported means "Unsupported". No one hiking with you and no assistance that has a possibility of making you faster what-so-ever!
The thing I am going to do is have someone drive to each road intersection and wait for me. If I am 6 hours late, they can come get me.
Other than that, they are doing nothing for me. No recording time splits so I don't have to, no changing out my food and water; no "wake me up in 45 minutes" no nothing.
As of now, I am going to be starting in Tahoe City and going Counter Clockwise.
I am also looking at no sleep at all during the nights.
Only sleep about 45 minutes before it cools down on the 2nd day and one or two 20 minute naps each day.
This way I can just bring a jacket and bottoms as warmth.Mar 27, 2009 at 8:13 pm #1489328
The TRTA gave me all those times I posted.
Good luck on your attempt! Do you plan on running at all, or just hike plugging along the whole time? For me, at least, I've thought that maybe a bit of an "ultra shuffle" would be okay on some flat sections, but wonder if that would ultimately make me slower by trashing my quads a bit more than just a fast walk would. I also go back and forth on the sleep thing–I do like it.
I've heard that people try to start at Kingsbury Grade (I think that's what I read?) because there is a 3 mile stretch that the TRTA doesn't consider official trail–effectively making this a 165 mile trail and cutting off about an hour. Maybe starting there and going counter-clockwise would help with the dry east side?
55 hours is a bit much for me. I trail raced years ago but never anything ultra distance–I'm just a thru-hiker and figured I can walk and walk and walk. I race road bikes and can't this year due to an injury (oddly enough, hiking doesn't bother it), and without a goal I go a little nuts.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I live in Tahoe City and if I can offer any help please let me know.Mar 27, 2009 at 8:29 pm #1489333
@puckemLocale: between trees
SOOOO….what does it mean to be unsupported on a longer hike? Like PCT, AT, CDT. Cuz it would be rediculous to carry all the food you need. So whats the diff between getting food at a store and having somebody get it for you or mailing it to yourself? Either way, you rely on something or someone other than yourself. Ben Saunders walked/skiied to the north pole with all his gear (300+ lbs i think) in tow on a sled. But i doubt any "unsupported" thru hikers use this method.Mar 27, 2009 at 9:34 pm #1489339
I may be wrong, but I think there is entirely-unsupported and self-supported. Self-supported is typical long trail style of hiking–you don't have any pre-planned assistance from people, you just go to POs and stores and such. Entirely-unsupported, I would argue, is starting with everything you would need for the entire trail (not including water from natural sources), like what Coup from Golite did a few years ago for his Long Trail, CT and JMT hikes. That make sense?Mar 27, 2009 at 9:40 pm #1489342
The PCT, AT, CDT question finally comes out.
That is called "Self Supported"…
Everyone just gets that on such a long hike, you must resupply, but they can not have pacers. Thru-hikers are either just too lazy to call it Self Supported or they just don’t want to confuse the issue even more.
This you can not have anyone drop off any of your supplies at the trail head for you. You must hitch hike or walk in to pick up the supplies yourself.
With Self Supported, you can have hiking partners or share food as long as you are doing the hike under your own power.
About the longest fully Unsupport trail out there that I have heard of in terms of attempting to break the Unsupported Record in the way we are doing the TRT and JMT is the Colorado trail.
In an Unsupported attempt, you do not have the option of getting food for yourself along the trail. It must be carried from start to finish.
The whole truth of it is, these rules we have to follow are rules to just make it easyer to attempt a record. If it is already know what needs to be done, then we do it without asking questions.
If you want to cheat or push the limits of the way it just is then you shouldn't be making an attempt in the first place.
You must cover the distance under you own power and whatever help after that is allowed.
You must cover the distance and not receive any assistance that would help you do the trail faster than you could without that assistance.
You are thru-hiking the trail with out any assistance or resupply other than the water you get from the trail.
This also means no pacing in a means of speeding you up. If you have someone hiking with you, (at night especially), that person will not only have a light that will assist you but also help keep you up.
So if you want someone to hike with and keep you company, than carry that person on your back.
No matter how many times these questions get answered, the questions never seem to change about the meaning. If you don’t want to get it then just hike your own hike.Mar 27, 2009 at 9:46 pm #1489345
There is no way I could average 3 mph while just power hiking.
I plan on moving faster than a hike for at least half of the distance, (I like to call it trogging).
Basically averaging 2.5 mph hiking and 4.5 mph running.Mar 28, 2009 at 2:36 pm #1489449Mar 29, 2009 at 9:45 am #1489556
Id like to thank everyone for their comments regarding the TRT. Im now pondering whether i want to carry all my food and go the un-supported route, or if I should do a food drop around the half way point? My plan is to start at the Kinsbury South trailhead, hiking the trail clockwise, with my possible resupply in Tahoe City. To do the trail in 4 days I would have to do 41.25 mile days-which are completly doable. Im would like to have my BPW in the 4 lb range, so i can keep an efficent pace, and run some sections like Tahoe City to Brockaway Summit with reletive ease, I hope! Im not a ultra-runner by any means, so i plan on longer days and hiking at night, catching some sleep in the heat of the day when hiking would be less desirable. Comments will only help me in the planning of this Hike!
Thanks AaronMar 29, 2009 at 10:46 am #1489565
Aaron–I'm interested in what pack you plan on using for this, also what pack did you use for your JMT effort? I just searched online and found your and Mike's trip report for the JMT record hike–you both deserve a huge congratulations. I have several packs and wonder about the durability of some of the lighter ones when it comes to trail running. Do you go to a heavier pack for more support/durability or do you feel comfortable with a very light pack with a small pack weight? The packs I have that I'm considering are my Golite 24 (19 oz), Golite Ion (9 oz) and GG Murmur (7.5 oz). I really like the look of the Inov-8 Race Elite series of packs (maybe I'll start a new thread about those).
Also, how much food (in weight) do you carry for efforts like this?
Thanks in advance.Mar 29, 2009 at 12:16 pm #1489576
I dont know if you wanted my response, or the other Aaron's on the forum, probably his…Anyway I plan on using either the ULA Condiut,or a GG Murmur(almost a 10 oz difference)!Since im planning on starting my hike earlier in the summer(more water)i will probably go with the Murmur-but if plans change and I cant start till later when water becomes more of an issue, then i may go with the Conduit, just because i think it will carry a couple liters of water better than the Murmur can. My food will consist of bars(Clif&Pro Bars)with dried fruit for snacks, dehyrated black beans and potatoe burritos for dinner, and tons of GU and Nuun for while im on the move.Mar 30, 2009 at 2:35 pm #1489847
I am narrowing my pack choices down to 3 packs.
The Golite Rush and the REI Stoke 9 that I have or the Nathan Synergy that just came out. Nathan makes good quality packs and they are very comfortable. Plus it carries 100 ounces and is pretty light.
We are going to need to carry 4 litters of water over a few sections out there, and I think there may be a few times when I'll be out in search for water while doing hte attempt.
I have an Inov8 12 pack and the sides rub my skin raw when running with it.
It makes for a good overnight hiking pack though
On the JMT I used the Nathan HPL 759. The only problem that I had on the JMT was that all the weight was on my shoulders and it got old and slowed me down a lot.
I am just not built and have way too many problems with my shoulders and back to do heavy longer unsupported attempts.
For food, I plan on 5 pounds of mostly jels and gues.Mar 31, 2009 at 9:28 am #1490042
@pivvayLocale: Rocky Mountains
What's that stoke 9 weigh Aaron? I've been using a BD Flash for about a year now and like it quite a bit. Mine came in slightly overweight but I think it weighs in at 7 or 8 oz nowadays. It's got a few patches on it from when I've taken it soloing. Whoops. You could probably get it under 7oz with careful stripping work. The back is nicely padded and so are the shoulder straps.
The stoke 9 BTW is too short for long torsos right? I tried one on and sort of remember that. Of course I hack the waist belt off anything I use on the bike since I have a "thing" about tight stuff on my stomach. Then torso length isn't quite as critical.
I still like my Nathan 759 too but I rarely take it unless I have to haul more than 4L of water in the pack. I took it on a couple tours of the Kokopelli and White Rim last year when I hauled a large proportion of the group gear/food/water.
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