Hike Your Own Adventure (Choose your Own Gear)

I am sorry Nathan, you don’t.

I thought this was an exercise. I tried injecting some levity. You want serious?

I would not have got into that position. I would have been wearing real rain gear. Yeah it is twice as heavy at 11 oz each but it did not wet-out at hour 4 like yours did. (I am speculating as you are the one complaining.) And if I lived in your area, instead of just visiting it and having many friends there, I would have been even more prepared. But how would I make it better?

Get a pack cover. A liner is dumb in my opinion in rainy areas. Your pack could fill with water over the course of the “it's been raining for the full 48 hours you've been here.” In two days you are probably carrying a couple pounds or more of water between your pack and the liner.

Who makes fires? Not me. I have not made one since 1993 and won’t again unless I need it. You plan on them? Interesting.

I have never hiked for two days in solid rain. I never want to. If I did I would put up my tent, like always. I would make dinner, like always. I would be happy that I was outside, under the stars, like always. I would not think that once I got back to my computer I would complain about my trip.

Is that serious enough?

Keep your bag in the bivy.

Ooooooooookay.

> I am sorry Nathan, you don’t.
Yup.

Cheers

Hey Raymond, you no like fires? why not? They provide spirit, moral, heat, and light. They can set the mood for a nice cozy evening of lazing and chatting.

IMHO, fire is AWESOME!

cheers

Nathan,
I have wanted to do a trip report on BPL of my 5 day trip on the Ouachita National Recreation Trail ("OT") from Arkansas to Oklahoma at the end of December of 2008. Needless to say, this trip was under winter conditions. I was snowed and mostly rained on for 5 straight days and was never able to get my clothes to dry out no matter what I did. The second day was the worst – it was about 38 degrees, raining and the wind was strong enough to make the rain come in at me horizontally into my face for extended periods of time. Although at times, I absolutely hated life, I really loved being able to do a winter trip like this. It was amazing seeing such a beautiful area and to have the whole trail to myself. If I wanted to do similar future trips, I needed help to learn what to do better to improve my quality of trail life. My strongest recommendation is to read on BPL the article by Chris Townsend about hiking in cold & wet conditions. Since reading this article, I have made numerous changes to my system and gear to be winter ready.

As for my sleeping system, I am fast enough now to setup my GoLite Shangri-La 1, setup my ground cloth (its large enough so that I can form a “tub” inside to keep the outside out), and get my bivy sack and dry down bag out into the tarp without getting it wet or dirty with mud. I typically strip, use a pack towel inside to dry off and change into some dry clothes. Since I use a bag liner, everything inside is dry.

By the way, I am from the Bay area and regularly do numerous versions of the Skyline-to-the-Sea trail. I have even come up with extend trail connections that go around a 100 mile loop. We’ll have to catch-up sometime to share trail maps of the area.

Been there soooo many times. Ponchos are good. Rest stops and airing out are good. Redundant waterproof packing is good. Down is bad on the coast; synthetic fills rule. Redundant fire starters are good. Tinder is good– as simple as petroleum jelly cotton balls. A spare Esbit tab can save your bacon. A basic folding pocket knife with a locking blade is good– and doesn't need to be big and heavy.

You points are good. At 45-50F and 90% humidity, nothing much dries. Your sweat has nowhere to go. It's like hiking in a sponge. Fleece works here and your body heat will dry it out. Too bad it's a little heavy. Wicking base layers are wonderful. The chances of your foot gear drying overnight are less than zero. The noises I make putting on cold wet shoes in the morning keep the Sasquatch legend alive.

Rain in the Pacific Northwest isn't like much of the rest of the country. It rarely really pours, but it can drizzle for WEEKS in the Winter and shoulder seasons. Couple that with omnipresent cloud cover and you can feel the green goo growing on you. We don't tan, we rust!

Hi Evan,

I love fires. I like fires only second to running water. If I could have a fire next to a running stream I would be in heaven.

I just stopped making them as everybody got into the LNT thing and then California got so dry that many areas prohibited any open fires. Some of our local areas will not even allow wood burning stoves as they classify them the same as a camp fire. (Plus Dave and I had a scary fire moment that really made us think about the practice. A story for another time.)

I took my kids on a hike to Maplewood State Park last summer. They only allow over-night camping in set spots and we hiked in to a lake-side site. It was also used by folks that could get there in boats, so we were surprised to find a table, fire ring and outhouse at a “backpacking” site. What was really neat was the bundle of wood some boaters had left. It had rained, and was going to again but we found some great bark that had “paper” inners that we shredded out, and I used my knife to shave kindling and split some pieces off the store-bought wood. The resulting fire was a big hit. And it was the first time I had made a fire backpacking in 15 years.

Nathan, I am sorry if my post (first one) belittled your question. I was having fun. By your reply you seemed a bit more focused on a set answer than I could understand looking at the original open ending. I guess you could have ripped people for answering "their wife", unless you think you get to have their wife along for the next time you are in that situation, right? ;-)

And the second post was probably a bit overboard the other direction, although it is true. I am not a UL hiker, just a Light Backpacker. As such I may be a bit more comfortable in the conditions you “hypothesized”.

If you will forgive me I will let you borrow the narrow-cast hydrogen repulse unit…

Well, I'm planning a Wonderland Trail trip for several people…and that presents the very real possibility of these types of conditions. Kind of want to get a handle on what works to make that sort of thing "fun" if we get drizzled on the whole time. Looking like a beefier shelter might be called for, as well as redundant dry-sacking/pack cover and getting much better rain gear. (Disappointing really, as I love the lightweight small tarp + bivy idea, but it could be a real downer in such wet conditions)….

And yes, I usually like a fire when it is allowed if I'm on a trip with other people. If I'm solo, I don't care, but if I'm with friends, it's a social event. We don't just go to bed after making camp, but sit around the fire, talk, drink, etc., and I don't think it's really strange to do so. That's the best part! Relaxing around a fire in the wilderness with friends just enjoying the beauty and company.

Hi Nathan

OK, now we have context to work with. It does help. Now, remember I am biased. Having said that up front …

Ponchos for all, covering body and pack. Very effective at keeping you warm. Damp maybe, but warm. We never looked back.

Waterproof packs, or at least waterproof stuff sacks. I use silnylon stuff sacks lined with PE bags (freezer bags will do, or fruit shop bags). Yeah, redundant, but they keep the gear dry. Weight is micro.

Decent tents with several people inside each one. Mutual warmth is great, and the mutual psychological support is tremendous. Large tarps might do if you can count on no wind, but they are colder. Which is more important?

Canister stoves and hot soup and hot drinks. Cocoa anyone?

Fires are NOT FUN in the rain imho. I have seen a tarp used over the fire, but inside a tent in dry clothing appeals far more. Just pitch the tents all facing inwards so you can talk.

Fleece and thermals might be better than synthetic and down for clothing. I would go for the down if sub-zero, but you said rain. Mind you, I normally use a Cocoon rather than a fleece: it's lighter.

You know, the total 'increased' weight all this requires might be about 1 lb per person. But the increased comfort (and safety!) are significant.

Enjoy

Raymond,
The poncho covering both pack and you is very helpful. Keeps the pack from getting soaked and the contents from getting soaked too.

I have a 'Packa' that works very nicely. It's NOT a shelter. It does have lots of ventilation.

I take a non-breathable light jacket for lunch and camp-wear, for when I take off the Packa and leave it with the pack. When at rest I DON'T want breathability – that means evaporation and that means COLD. A garbage bag would do in a pinch.

For shelter in expected rainy weather, either a shared tent with vestibule from which to cook, or a large-ish tarp from which to do the same. If a tarp, then a sizeable ground cloth – tyvek, etc. keeps the gear off the mud.

A fire can be started in a modest rain and works when there is little wind. Having good tinder is the key. There's tons of information about this. In wind a fire doesn't work so well, smoke has to be avoided and the heat is often lost. Bad luck, then.

By sharing gear (thus reducing weight of tent/tarp) and taking a bit of redundant rain gear you only gain perhaps 2lbs of weight for a great deal of comfort. A down bag, well protected, is still fine.

Marty Cooperman
(from the occasionally wet industrial midwest)

I guess you could have ripped people for answering "their wife", unless you think you get to have their wife along for the next time you are in that situation, right?

Hey now… nobody gets to borrow my wife. I answered with that because I couldn't really relate to the top question in the sense that it was so narrowly focused. I would have prepared differently, brought different equipment, and made different decisions.

Regarding the new information – here is my tip: if you are going to wear ponchos, and bring tents/tarptents, you have the added advantage of being able to set up sheltered cooking/seating areas. My tip would be to bring a enough extra guy line and stakes so that you can make good use of the poncho's if need be.

When I've done group trips where I have expected rain, I've always brought my 14 oz 8×10 siltarp (don't have a poncho/tarp) to set up as an alternate place to hang out and cook. Every time it rained it was a great boost to morale to have a tarp to sit under in addition to a tent to sleep in.

>>When I've done group trips where I have expected rain, I've always brought my 14 oz 8×10 siltarp (don't have a poncho/tarp) to set up as an alternate place to hang out and cook. Every time it rained it was a great boost to morale to have a tarp to sit under in addition to a tent to sleep in.<<

My wife insists that we bring a tarp (in addition to our tent) when we camp. It serves as rain shelter for cooking, sitting, and being dry/comfortable outside of the more confining space of a tent. If the weather forecast is favorable with small chance of precipitation, the tarp we take is an ID poncho. If the weather forecast is less favorable, then I can take an MLD Grace Duo.