TT Scarp 2 vs Big Agnes Seedhouse SL2

No comparison… scarp 2 wins hands-down.

It is more rain-worthy than the SL2. Because the side walls of the inner are vertical rain will not fall into the tent when you open the vestibule (not true in the SL2!).

It is *much* bigger than the SL2. The SL2 is only 42 inches across the bottom end, while the scarp 2 is 52 inches all the way across. Plus all the space is usuable in the scarp 2. The head height is much lower in the SL2 (38 inches vs 44 inches).

They should both be reasonably stable in high winds when properly guyed out. With the crossing poles added the scarp 2 would be more stable I should think.

Both are double walled and should not suffer from too many condensation problems.

The SL2 has one entry and vestibule, whereas the scarp 2 has two. The depth of the vestibules on the scarp 2 is the same as the scarp 1… 19 inches which is plenty for packs etc. When you open the vestibule in the scarp 2 your gear in the bottom half of the vestibule will remain dry.

The SL2 is freestanding, whereas the scarp 2 requires you to carry extra poles (ie. more weight) if you want the same option. This is the *only* advantage I can think of for the SL2. And not a very impressive one really.

For me, these tents are not even in the same class. The only other tent I would consider for higher wind areas is the double rainbow, which is much less roomy and is more breezy inside — but lighter.

Unlike many UL gear buying decisions, this one is an easy one!!!

Thanks for the reply.

While the 42" foot-end width of the SL2 doesn't really bother us (we'll most likely use a shared quilt anyway), the increased living space in the Scarp 2 would be nicer. I've read that strong side winds can deflect the walls of the SL2 pretty badly. However, we typically don't mind a lighter, smaller tent vs a heavier, roomier tent as we mostly value hiking comfort over shelter comfort (we view sitting upright as a luxury). Also, the smaller footprint of the SL2 would help us out a lot as we've been told it can be difficult finding enough flat space for a tent–also a benefit of having a freestanding tent when sleeping on rocky surfaces that don't accept stakes.

Here's my pros/cons list, I think.
SL2 pros–lighter, smaller footprint, freestanding, will probably let less blowing grit in, can use our REI 20% coupon,
SL2 cons–vestibule, side wind deflection, interior dimensions/living space,

Scarp 2 pros–interior dimensions/living space, vestibules, strength with shifting winds, top vents,
Scarp 2 cons–heavier, more expensive, non-freestanding without adding to weight/price, larger footprint, might let more blowing grit in (without going to solid fabric interior)

Am I being retarded for possibly leaning toward the SL2, given what I'm looking to use it for? Cause I can be pretty retarded.

My gf and I tried an SL2 and hated it instead opting for the Hubba Hubba. The Scarp 2 compares a lot to the Carbon Reflex 2 but will likely be around $175 less. I was looking at trying both a Lunar Duo and Double Rainbow but single wall doesn't work so well in the SE so the Scarp 2 will be our new tent for duo trips. Slightly more floor space but 1 lb or more less carry weight for our normal use in all 4 seasons here.

As to why we didn't like the SL2: one door, requires a large number of stakes to have decent floor space, condensation would hit the pole hubs and drip in to the inner tent on us, and the door lets in rain when open.

Here's our review on the SL2:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/big_agnes_seedhouse_sl2_tent_review.html

I lived with the SL2 for a bit and was bothered by the cramped quarters which are made worse by walls that lean in. It's not a very rigid shelter either- not the best in high winds. That said, I have heard that some people enjoy this tent.

Another bonus of the Scarp- you can use the cross pole or not. Add it to increase snow loading and wind stability, leave it at home for lighter trips. I've never used a Scarp myself…

For windblown sand and the such, any tent with a mesh interior will let some of that in. I suspect these tents will be similar in that regard…

The Scarp will definitely be the more livable shelter if you are interested in shrugging off constant heavy rain and wind.

The vestibule of the SL2 is decently sized, but opening it will let a bit of rain inside whereas the inner of the Scarp will not see any rain on entry and exit. I see this as a big benefit if you are expecting this kind of weather frequently.

If you won't have the space or the ground to stake your shelter, you will have problems with both tents. The SL2 needs to be staked just to have its normal floor space and both tents require guying out to be stable.

If you look at the hub design of the SL2, you can see its design will do well with vertical loads down on the top of the tent ie light snow loading, but you don't have as much lateral stability so it depends heavily on guy lines.

I have an SL3 which I love for 2 person use in the Southeast. It has one extra pole right in the middle running perpendicular to the hub pole which I believe gives it much better lateral stability. I also think it is a much better two person tent space-wise than the SL2 but it is significantly heavier.

I know you are talking about hiking comfort being more important than shelter comfort, but I really think you'll be thankful you have the Scarp along. Don't get sucked into buying the SL2 based on the fact you can get it for 20% off! All of us on this site have made that mistake before!

I own neither of these, but based on reading many, many posts by B2W (the SL2 promoter of the interwebs), go with the Scarp2. The livable space, high peak height and vertical side walls are so key on a shelter that it is worth it.

I own a TT DR and love the near vertical walls. My MK1 is similarly setup with (near) vertical side walls.

FWIW, I'm planning a trip to Iceland and as far as I know now I'll be buying a Scarp 1 for it. No hands-on experience yet though.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I've looked at the Scarp 1 and adding the crossing poles adds 12 oz, so I'm guessing it would add about 16 oz for the Scarp 2. Can anyone who has a Scarp 1 tell me how well it handles winds without the crossing poles? It looks like it would still beat the SL2 in winds without those poles, though. As weight is a huge concern of mine, I don't want to spend a good chunk of change to get a tent that is only a few ounces lighter than my Bibler (4 lbs 8 oz). I like the Bibler a lot as it can handle basically anything, but being single wall it requires a large pack and can't be divided up to be packed by the both of us (my girlfriend is super proud and stubborn and wants to pull her own weight).

It would be nice if the mesh interior of the Scarp 2 more closely matched the interior of the Scarp 1. It seems that the sidewalls have a solid fabric bottom and a mesh top–that would definitely help with the blowing debris. From what I can tell, the Scarp 2 is either all mesh or all solid fabric.

Since I'm now leaning away from the SL2, in looking Big Agnes' next lightest 2-person, does anyone have any experience with the Copper Spur UL2? It has top vents, an added pole which would help with side-wind deflection and would add to vestibule utility while potentially keeping rain out when entering/exiting–plus there is another door/vestibule. All this for only an extra 8 oz over the SL2.

Interesting that you would mention Iceland. I was planning an Iceland trip a year ago but my hiking partner bailed. The Scarp design came about because I wanted something for that trip that was free-standing capable as well as something that better handled blowing dust. Hence the code name for the Scarp was originally "Iceland" (and I was tempted to just leave that as the final product name). In any event, the "inner" for the Scarp 2 will be available in two flavors: full mesh and solid/breathable (like the Scarp 1 inner). For Iceland you would definitely want the solid/breathable inner as well as the crossing poles for wind and for marginal staking areas.

-H

Thanks for the reply Henry. If you think I would need the crossing poles and solid interior, then I think that would bump the weight up enough that it would only be about 4 oz lighter than my Bibler Eldorado. If that's the case, then I would probably opt for the Big Agnes Copper Spur UL2 as it is about 18 oz lighter than the Bibler.

In talking with others who have already walked across Iceland, one used the SD Clip Flashlight 2 (said it was barely acceptable due to good weather) and the other used the Big Agnes Fly Creek UL1 and had no problems. I'm thinking that the Copper Spur UL2 is more storm worthy design than the Fly Creek UL1, plus I can use my REI 20% coupon.

Unless anyone has had any bad experiences with the Copper Spur UL2, I'll see if the local REI has one I can climb int.

–on a side note, I would really like a Big Sky tent, but I don't think their customer service/delivery times have improved. Is this still correct?

Yes I thought that you would find the "Iceland" thread rather interesting..

That interchangeable inner is a brilliant idea, I wonder if any Scarp 1 owners would like that as well.

Franco