New 2009 Mont-Bell Down Bags

"LOL. It just goes to show… colour is a very personal thing. I kinda like the summerlite, but hey, I like red. It is bright though."

Hi Ashley,
You're absolutely right of course. Color is totally a personal thing. I was just being a wise guy. I am an earth tone type, myself, but I gritted my teeth and coughed up the swag for a Summerlite because it's such a great bag.
And now I lie awake at night in the mountains wondering if I look like a giant red Froot Loop to every passing bear.

i'm 5'10 and just ordered a regular 6' size WM after doing a lot of research and finding lots of people with similar height who said that the regular back was perfect.

The Long might be too long..meaning extra air for your feet to heat.

I kind of like the rust color and the teal color. It is really the yellow and bright orange I have a problem with. I guess they could be cheerful on a really cold day stuck in your tent, but I prefer not to be blinded by sleeping bag. I'd definitely take a nice deep red or darker purple.

All the more reason to order a Nunatak quilt. You get to choose your color.

Wow – I had no idea Montbell made the Nunatak quilt.

I thought this was a thread about MB?

This thread is now about our taste in colors. :)

Wait a second, no its not!

I made the thread so i should know. 8)

> I made the thread so i should know. 8)

Yeah, democracy in action. Or is that mob rule? Or is there a difference? :)

"I was wondering if anyone knew anything about these bags, i can't find much on them online."

http://webshop.montbell.jp/goods/list.php?category=236000

The No.1 (regular):

http://webshop.montbell.jp/goods/disp.php?product_id=1121791

【総重量】930g
【カラー】オレンジ(OG)
【サイズ】204×80cm
【収納サイズ】φ17×33cm/ 6L
【適応身長】身長178cmまで

weight: 930 grammes
colour: orange
size: 204 x 80 cm
packed size: 17 x 33 cm, 6 litres volume
fits up to 178 cm tall

If you click on the picture of the bag you go to a more detailed page that amongst other things illustrates the mechanical stretch in the bag, which is claimed to be 120%.

http://webshop.montbell.jp/goods/disp.php?product_id=1121791

Arapiles

"This thread is now about our taste in colors. :)"

Personally I like black socks, although I usually put one black and one dark brown on. Color Blindness issues.

Maybe they use loud and bright colors so that no one will notice that there's not enough down fill to ever leak out.

Tom,

Have you found durability/quality to be a problem with Montbell bags?

I was trying to decided between a WM Summerlite and Megalite(I will repeat again; I missed the stinkin' bc sale by 24 hours.) I want the summerlite but am concerned it may be too narrow in the long run. And then I saw the post for this new spiral down bag and said 'Hey, same weight as the summerlite with same amount of down fill at a slightly lower power, the stretch will give me the same fit as a megalite, and it's significantly cheaper than either. I may have found my new bag."

As a sleeping bag is a long-term investment, I'd be willing to pay the extra, but only if I have to. I've never read a bad thing about WM, whereas I have heard some very positive but also some negative things about Montbell bags. It sounds like you have an opinion, and I wouldn't mind hearing it.

James,
I ordered a MB SS #3 Hugger and a WM Apache during the BC sale. I might try and swap the Hugger for a spiral and then i can review both for you.

Could be awhile before i can post a review though…

-Pete

"Tom, Have you found durability/quality to be a problem with Montbell bags?"

I've never owned a Montbell. I'm just basing that on reviews I've read, and the one's I've seen in stores or that belonged to friends. My understanding is that you never know what you're going to get from an online retailer, so it is better to buy a bag that you can actually handpick, and not get stuck with one that has underfilled baffles.

The weights and prices of the new spiral bags are tempting.

I didn't know until I checked last night that Down Works in Santa Cruz carries Montbell. My GF and I are taking a day trip down to Big Sur this Saturday and I plan to stop on the way if they're open. If it happens that they have the new spiral down in stock (haven't called yet) or at least a regular size bag in any Montbell make, I'll at least get to figure out what size I need.

Tom wrote above: "Maybe they use loud and bright colors so that no one will notice that there's not enough down fill to ever leak out."

Truth be told, I was a bit indignant reading the above — but quickly remembered my own initial reaction when my No. 3 (30F) bag first arrived. Having been burned by Kelty's "rating optimism" — a supposed 25F bag that felt cold once temp got into the low 30's — I was extremely concerned that the MontBell too would leave me cold at night. The bag was so light and it just didn't loft all that much.

On its maiden trip to the Wind Rivers,WY — I brought extra insulation layers just in case — but to my pleasant surprise, the bag's rating was spot on — keeping me comfy at around 30F.

To back up Ben's comment, there are many posts by Richard Nisley with examples which illustrate that loft is not necessarily a good indication of warmth. The main factor is the fill weight (and quality) and the cut of the bag (roomier bags need more fill for the same temperature rating). I believe Montbell bags have a similar fill weight as WM bags, so it should not be surprising that most users agree that the bags meet their spec'ed temperature.

What makes the Montbell Spiral Down Bag #3 so intriguing is that the fill weights are almost identical to the two WM bags I'm looking at:

WM Summerlite – 32*, 9 oz fill in the Reg. Narrow cut bag
WM Megalit – 30*, 12 oz fill in the reg, 5 inces wider cut
MB Spiral Down #3 – 30*, 10 oz fill in the reg narrower unstretched than the Summerlite, wider than the megalite when stretched.

MB claims 800 Fill Power; I can't find anyhwere on the WM site that indicates bag fill power. For their jackets they say 850. I assume the same for their bags.

When you take into account the 2" shorter length of the MB bag, the amount of fill comes pretty close. How that fill spreads out when the bag streches is another story.

The only thing that makes this a debate in my head is that like Tom, I have read a few times where people complain about quality control in the Montbell bags. Just often enough to make me feel like I'm taking a chance.

I've never seen a negative comment about WM quality.

That said, I really hope Down Works carries the new Spiral Down. Maybe I'll have a new bag by Saturday night.

James:

I too have read some of the negatives – and I believe it's a combination of (1) not used to seeing a bag that lofts so little and so light and yet so warm, and (2) bona fide quality control problems. Given the legions of undying fans, however, I feel the latter is uncommon.

If you are intrigued enough, then why not order both MB and WM and do a real comparison — maybe lay down inside in your own backyard or something — and then choose the one you really like? Depending on your physique, if the MB bag works for you, then having a truly ultralight but less constrictive bag can be a very good thing.

In any case, return postage is minimal — esp. given the purchase price.

Do it! Do it! 8)

Many of the quality issues – re: underfilled baffles was on the 725 fill bags 2006/7. I have not heard one negative on the newer 800 fill bags. I looked over a #2 SS UL Hugger recently and could not find any underfilled baffles and the loft was more than the Marmot Hydrogen next to it in the store (of course, the MB does have a higher fill weight).

The zipper track has been improved compared to the 725 bag and I can't see snags being a problem which they can be on the WM bags. Very nice IMHO and I was one of the individuals that criticized my previous #3 725 for underfilled baffles on these forums.

I just received my new bag that I picked up for 25% off at BackcountryGear. Montbell UL Spiral Down #3 in Long. I'm debating between this and the WM Summerlite, which I have looked at in a store, but do not have here to side by side compare. The MB bag is very appealing as it has a significantly lower price (even w/o the 25% discount) to the Summerlite for almost identical specs:

The Summerlite is rated at 32*, the MB at 30*, but I doubt one could tell the difference in the field.

The Summerlite weighs 19oz in the Regular, which is the size I'd take. The MB also weight 19oz in regular, but I have to use a long, b/c the 5'10" length of the Regular is a hair to short. My long is spec'd at 20 oz by MB. On my non-digital postal scale, it comes in at 20.5 oz, so pretty close.

After letting it loft for 45 minutes, I used a tape measure and got ~3" of loft. Some spots were close to 3.5", but overal I'd say 3" WM claims 4" for the Summerlite. Some picturess:



Next to my REI 1.75" trekker.


In Stuff Sack

Holding it up to the light, the light fabric showed through spots where the down was thin on it was just fabric against fabric. I assume with a bag this light, with 10oz fill, this is just the case. I tried it with the summerlite in the store, but the inner lining is black, so I didn't see any light through it.

The MB bag has a draft tube, but it is not down filled. The Summerlite has an 'insulated draft tube' which I assume means down.

Neither has a collar. The #3 has a draw string at the neck that pulls pretty tight.

The big negative about the #3 to me, which I did not notice looking at the photos, is that the zip stops 2' from the bottom of the bag. I prefer a full-zip so I can use the bag as a quilt in warmer temps. I also like to be able to vent my feet. The summerlite is a full zip.

I'd be happy to (attempt to) take any more detailed pictures anyone wants.

Of course, the main measure of the bag – will it perform – I can only find out by taking it out in the field and rendering the bag unreturnable. I may have to order a summerlite to put them side by side.

I hope you dont mind me spying on your personal space but I happened to notice your flash pack in the backgroud. That happens to be my all time favorite pack. Have you or are you going to use it for weekend trips? I have been looking for a super small 40 degree bag that would make it work. Last summer I used a Lafuma 45 synthetic and it kinda worked but I was always a bit chilly. Ali

Just picked up the new Montbell spiral #3 to try. Overall it's OK but I've decided it's going back. The loft is a little underfilled in areas and it is definitely less lofty than a friend's WM Summerlite I've used in the past.

I'm still hunting for a summer bag and it looks like it will have to be a nunatak quilt with overfill for the same weight, despite the higher price. I'm not crazy about the feel of the shell of the montbell bags & it's not as comfortable or cozy as a good quilt even with the stretch.

James and Praveen:

Just something about our penchant to equate bulk and heft with warmth? And even within the UL community!

Time and again, the Japanese prove themselves the masters of "miniaturization" — in cars and electronics and apparently sleeping bags too — without sacrificing function.

When I first got my MontBell No. 3 UL down bag — I too was a bit suspicious that something so light and "underfilled" could be true to its temp rating!?!

I view myself as an average sleeper — neither sleeping overly hot or cold. On the bag's maiden trip to the Wind Rivers — I brought along an extra layer of clothing "just in case" — and the 30F bag proved true to its rating — with me wearing just ultralight silk long johns.

Warmth is definitely subjective — but I highly encourage new owners to approach their bags with an open mind — and perhaps put on a new paradigm. Bigger/heftier is not necessarily warmer. MontBell touts the "efficient design" of its bags — and I (and many others) have since been firm believers. Give your bags a real field test (maybe bring an extra layer just like I did) — and then judge for yourselves.

Finally, regarding the shell — I wonder if MontBell has made changes? If so, that would be a pity — as their shell/lining material is actually extremely soft and comfy — very noticeably softer and comfier than Western Mountaineering.