Base Weight

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

Crocs are great camp shoes. They are very light. I have even hiked in them. Put your insoles in them and they work great for hiking in a pinch.

Don't bring any extra clothes. Maybe extra socks. I hiked for 3 months last year and did not have a change of clothes. Not even underwear. If you really want to wash your clothes, go for a swim in your clothes. Wait a while though so the toxic chemicals from your laundry detergent/softener/DEET has worn off.

You seem to have a lot of warm layers. You can use your rain gear when it is not raining for warmth. Sleep in your rain gear if you're cold and leave the down outfit home. If you don't actually wear your long sleeved shirt maybe you don't need it.

If you hike later into the evening and earlier in the morning, saving mid-days for relaxing by the lake (rather than relaxing in a freezing cold campsite full of mosquitos by a lake) you can get by without a down jacket, or with just a down windshirt-type jacket.

What do you need a pack cover for? Your pack is probably already water resistant. Put your stuff in a plastic garbage bag inside your pack. If the rain is truly dire, set up camp and wait it out.

You don't need a pillow case. It is a single-use item. If you just need something soft, use something you already have. Maybe blow up one of your 1-liter containers and sleep on that. If your problem is drool, then make sure you have one item of clothing that you can turn inside out to sleep on.

You keep saying you need a container for treating your water. Unless you drink both of your soda bottles in one sitting, treat your water in those.

Rather than a rope and clothepins, tie an extra shoelace inside your tent across the ridgeline. Then hang things to dry on it. If you ever need a shoelace, you'll have one, and meanwhile it's being useful.

You don't need much first aid. Some tape and gauze and some ibuprofen and maybe some antibiotic ointment. Anything worse than that happening to you will require improvising from the other items in your pack.

For toothpaste, bring a tiny travel size that is almost empty. Or skip the toothpaste completely and floss more often.

[Roger Caffin]

Mike wrote:
> Boots? No way. Just walk thru the streams in LW nylon sneakers!.

With you, Mike. We do this all the time, river walking. That's walking down a river IN the river a lot of the time.

Jenolan River, December 2008

The idea of wearing leather boots on a trip like this – choke.
The idea of taking our shoes off every time we waded – laugh!
Oh yes: I could bore you silly with pictures like these!

Cheers

[Laurence Beck]

After taking a lot of suggestions from this forum I have reduced my base weight to about 16.5 lbs (after I purchase a new pack and new sleeping pad). This represents about a 38% savings in weight and that, without really sacrificing any comfort or security. I know there are purists out there who will say that I have not even scratched the surface but I think I am going to try this arrangement for a season or two before the next round.

Again, I really want to thank all of you for your suggestions. Here is my final gear list (for now). Sorry Mike, I am still bringing the TP although that was an interesting article.

Weight Item Description
37.0 Pack Granite Gear Vapor
42.0 Tent Big Agnes SL1
24.0 Pad Thermarest Prolite4 Regular
35.0 Bag REI Sahara 30 deg bag
1.8 Luxury Fleece Pillow Case
44.0 Bear Can Garcia Bear Cannister
13.0 Cooking See below
6.8 Water See below
45.0 Clothing See below
5.0 First Aid Limit to 5 oz
4.0 Hygene Toothbrush, Toothpaste, Soap
3.0 TP Sorry Mike…
0.3 Knife mini- box cutter
2.5 Light Headlite
263.4 16 lbs
7.4 ounces

5.8 Pot Evernew titanium 1100cc
3.9 Stove Pocket Rocket
1.8 Cup Titanium Cup
0.9 Sheild Titanium Stove Shield
0.6 Spoon Long Handled Titanium Spoon
13.0

2.1 Canteen 3L Nalgene Canteen
3.8 Bottles 2 – 1L Gatorade bottles
0.9 Purify 30 dose – Katadyn Micropur
6.8

6.0 Rain DriDucks Rain Shell
2.0 Shoes Nylon Camp Shoes/Water Shoes
9.5 Insulation Montbell Down Inner Parka
8.0 Insulation Montbell Down Inner Pants
5.9 Pant legs Pantlegs for Northface convertible pants
2.6 UW One extra pair of synthetic underware
2.6 SOCKS One extra pair of Smartwool socks
3.3 Beanie/Gloves Colorado Avalanche knit hat/ knit gloves
5.1 Xtra Shirt Synthetic shirt
45.0

[Ashley Brown]

Well done Larry. If you consider that you are carrying a 2.5lb+ bear-can (which many people don't have to) then your remaining base weight is actually below 14lbs already!

Like you say, there are more weight savings to be had but the important thing is you've already dropped quite a bit of weight. And once you start, you can't stop! Before too long you'll be itching to get a lighter tent, sleeping bag and a sub-16oz sleeping pad! But I'm sure next time you get out there on the trail you'll enjoy the massive weight savings you've made already.

Good luck with your future weight savings and happy hiking!

Cheers, Ashley

[Dave T]

.

[Laurence Beck]

Dave,

I feel like I am taking too much bandwidth from this forum but see my responses below. This stuff is so much fun I don't mind reiterating… :)
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Granite Gear Vapor Trail – great pack. i still use mine alot, especially when my bear canister has to come along. figure out what size you need and post a "Want To Buy" post on the Gear Swap.

LB>I have not actually purchased this pack yet but it seems to be a good recommendation for me in this interim state plus I need to have room for the bear cannister. I will definately post the WTB after I check it out at REI.

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Big Agnes SL1 – I'd pick up a used Henry Shires creation instead. A contrail is 25 oz, my old squall 1 is 32 or so and a palace for one person. In California, you will "never" need anything more than a tarptent, for rain, mosquitoes, etc. Trust me – you won't go back!

LB> I may go with the tarp tent at some later date but I like the SL1 because it is standalone.

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Thermarest Prolite4 Regular – That's big and heavy. Try using a Prolite 3 short, and put your Vapor Trail pack (empty) under your legs.

LB> I actually have a short and could never get used to it so I went back to the large. I may go with a Prolite3 but it would have to be regular at 20oz.

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REI Sahara 30 deg bag – If you can pick up a "cheap"-ish WM bag used (gear swap), you could have a Caribou MF (35) at about half the weight, for example. I love mine, and it's definitely good to 30 with some clothes on.

LB> I bought this bag from Craigslist for a real steal so even though I could get a lot lighter bag it represented a 1 lb savings from my Blue Kazoo.

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Garcia Bear Cannister – Only carry this when you have to, or are camping in habituated bear areas / campsites. Use the PCT hang method otherwise (I just sleep with my food).

LB> I normally hike in the Sierra's and most areas up there require bear cannisters. Occasionally I will leave it home if I camp at a high enough elevation in the local mountains.

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First Aid Limit – 5 oz. is a lot for shorter trips with easy bailing. See "XUL First Aid" thread.

LB> I saw that thread and I am sure I could get by with less than 5 oz.

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Evernew titanium 1100cc – That's a really big pot for one person, even if you are cooking. A 0.9L is smaller and lighter (a bit!).

LB> I usually share hot water. I have a Vargo titanium cup/pot. It holds about 3 cups and it weighs about 1 oz lighter.

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Titanium Cup – What's the cup for? If you drink hot drinks while making dinner, I can see it. Normally I just drink my hot drinks outta the cookpot.

LB> Exactly. I use single serving coffee bags and my serving of vitamin C (caffiene) is my first order of business.

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Camp Shoes/Water Shoes – You really don't need these if you wear running shoes. Just loosen the laces way up in camp. And they dry fast if they get wet.

LB> This is a good idea for a lot more reasons than saving the 2oz in the nylon camp shoes. I have never made the jump to trail runners though. I still wear…(don't laugh!).. Vasque Sundowners. :)

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Montbell Down Inner Parka & Pants – What conditions do you see yourself wearing this? Around camp in the evening, prior to sleeping bag time? I imagine these are too hot to almost ever hike in (with a pack), so I'd carry something like a 3 oz windshirt (Houdini) and a synthetic Puff Vest (not too warm to hike in sometimes, and can wear in camp/sleeping bag). I don't carry "in camp" insulation – if it's cold, I get in my sleeping bag and cook dinner in the vestibule of the tarptent.

LB> The down inners basically allow me to use the 30 deg bag at high elevation in the Sierras. I plan on keeping then at hand in cases where the overnight temp drops below freezing. The Down Inner Parka also allows me to nix two other garments… A long sleeve shirt and a fleece pullover. The pullover itself was 11oz.

[Laurence Beck]

Over Memorial Day Weekend I finally field tested my new "lower" base weight in the local San Bernardino Mountains in Southern California. We took a 3 day, 28 mile traverse over San Gorgonio Peak and my total weight was 25 lbs + two 25 once beers (for sharing of course). The beers don't count as weight right?

I was going to go with Tecate but in honor of Ashley Brown from Down Under, I went with the Foster's. I had the lightest pack of the group by far even with the beer and that was WITH a Garcia Bear Cannister.

[Ashley Brown]

Ha, great! There's something immensely satisfying about carrying less weight than everyone else, and then going "hey, who wants a beer?". Priceless.

Thanks for the nod with the Fosters =-) Funnily enough, no one in Australia actually drinks Fosters! It's an Aussie beer that you only really see overseas.

I must admit I'm a bit partial to taking some red wine along to drink before dinner, at the end of a long day. As you say, it doesn't count as weight so why not!

[Scott Bentz]

For some reason I never saw this post when it was an ongoing conversation back in Feb. You did a real nice job at getting your pack weight down. There are still a few items you can cut out (boots, tent, bag, pad, etc.) that will save you even more weight. I am positive you will eventually cut those items because this lightening up is a sickness.

As far as your recent trip I would imagine it was more enjoyable this time. I'm sure you didn't miss anything that had been taken off your list. I find the less I take the more I enjoy the outdoors. I feel prepared for the conditions I'm in but don't miss any of the just in case items I used to take. One advantage to packing less weight is covering more ground. 15-20 mile days, no problem! I can remember days when I was glad to stop hiking after 5-6 miles.

I just wanted to chime in and say congratulations on your lightening up and also being able to take the help/criticism from the members of the Forum.

Scott

[Mike Clelland]

GEAR LIST

http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/80a5cd1800fbac69c35fad3f320f5461.pdf

review this list, it's a tidy 3-season set-up

[Greg Mihalik]

Looks nice Mike.
Gives me something to shoot for.

In Clothes Worn you show both Jackalopes and Hiking Shorts. And I see both SS and Hoodie as well.

Perhaps one set needs to move into Clothes Packed?

[Laurence Beck]

Hi Scott and Mike,

Right now I am pretty happy with a base weight of 16-17 lbs but your suggestions are great. One thing I have to admit is that moving from my original 25+ lb base weight down to 16.5 lbs involved absolutely no compromises and only cost me about $250 total.

Mike: I am still packing the TP though :)

[Brad Rogers]

You might also try taking a smaller 4oz MSR or Snow Peak fuel canister. They weigh about 8ounces and I can go 17-18 days on one.

[Ray Dunham]

I have a Vapor Trail that has only been used twice. Let me know if interested.

[Ashley Brown]

Hey Laurence,

How did those camp shoes work out? Are they any good?

[Frank Perkins]

Well, if it's one thing you'll learn is that your list is never final and there is always the forums and eBay to correct any purchase "mistakes".

For your cooking system, couldn't you boil the water in your cup, add it to your bag of food and then eat of the cup again? This would eliminate your pot.

[John Fry]

Larry,

Congrats!
you have made some HUGE weight savings steps, and im always happy to hear/read about people who are able to cut any weight, let alone almost 10lbs! wow good job!

i do have a few minor suggestions

use the stuff sack for a thermarest prolite 3 as a pillow, just fill it with your clothes while you sleep, mine weighs about .9oz empty, and i use it to hold all kinds of stuff while i hike

also, look into sleeping in underarmour long pants, im at work so i dont have a weight for you at the moment, but i know mine are way less than 8oz

like somebody else mentioned, try the 100 gram fuel canisters, especially for shorter trips, i can cook on mine for about a week…

also consider using a silk bag liner, not only adds a few degrees of warmth, but makes your bag easier to clean

im not sure if it will help you , or give you more peace of mind, but i sprayed my down bag with campdry, concentrating mostly around the bottom and the footbox (parts that are most likely to brush against the tent as i sleep, and the parts exposed when its rolled up) i put on several coats, im sure its not waterproof, but i feel a bit more comfortable handling it when there is moisture out

i also coated my pack pretty heavily with campdry, so much that it changed colors, lol, it got darker
i dont use a pack liner either, all my gear is packed into the thermarest stuff sacks i mentioned earlier
in my testing, they are able to hold water for hours, so they are definately able to keep stuff inside dry from water soaking through the pack, and it keep my stuff organized, clothes in one, my tent in one, food in another, misc in the last one.

but again, congratulations for cutting so much weight!

[Laurence Beck]

Frank – that is a good idea. I always find myself carrying around an 8oz cannister. a 4oz WOULD be much lighter for a short trip even if I need to melt snow for water.

Ashley, The shoes are a little flimsy and thin but their fine for just hanging around the camp. I got the XXL so I could wear wool socks with them. One night I was camping on a rocky slope above the spring. You definately would not be able to walk down over the rocks to the spring with these shoes. I may eventually switch to trail runners as someone else suggested.

Frank – I only use my pot for boiling water. It probably is larger than I need but I sometimes share hot water with a group. I always eat my meals from their containers.

John – My fleece pillow is exactly that… a thermarest Prolite 3 stuff sack. Also – I went back to my original gear list before this push and I found that my base weight was actually over 30 lbs. I saved almost 15 lbs with the help (and abuse :) of this forum…with no real compromise thus far. Thanks to all!

Larry

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