Base Weight

[Laurence Beck]

Do you carry a pack rain cover? What do you use? I am carrying a Gregory Pack Cover that I bought with my old Whitney BP. The pack cover weighs 5.6oz. The nice thing about it that it is sturdy and it clips on very snugly.

[Ashley Brown]

I often just use a pack liner (1-2oz trash compactor bag). But if you have a pack that absorbs water (I would think the Aether would) then a cover might be best. In the past when I've used a pack cover I've just rigged one up from a garbage bag. I keep the important things inside my pack inside plastic bags anyway, so nothing gets wet if a bit of water gets in somehow.

Having said that I don't usually go hiking in the rain. I still get rained on sometimes but it's not really serious extended rain. You could probably rig up a lighter alternative to your pack cover by making something yourself. I'm not sure if there are some lighter commercial covers that you could just buy.

What do you use your knife for? Quite a few folks don't bother carrying one… they take a little razor blade instead for cutting cord etc.

[Laurence Beck]

I have to admit that I only use the knife to cut down the Mountain House bag once it's cooked. I also use the flat head screw driver blade to open my bear cannister. I guess a quarter would work for that. I actually have a small box cutter already. It's one of those cheapies they give you when you purchase a bunch of boxes. It's light but I don't know the exact weight. I am sure it's lighter than the knife though.

I usually bag stuff within my pack also. It's always inevitable to get caught in a pretty good down pour in the Sierra's in late summer. Maybe I can make one like you suggest or maybe a light weight trash bag if I can get it to stay put in a windy rain.

[Nick Gatel]

"Do you carry a pack rain cover? What do you use? I am carrying a Gregory Pack Cover that I bought with my old Whitney BP. The pack cover weighs 5.6oz. The nice thing about it that it is sturdy and it clips on very snugly."

Looks like you already bought some rain gear. Actually a Poncho/Tarp will accomplish your pack cover, rain gear and shelter for 10 oz or less. A light weight breathable bivy for really bad weather and you could get both for under a pound if you are willing to spend some money. This should be adequate for late summer.

You can just use your base layer as your hiking shirt. One pair of hiking pants. Skip the underwear other than a long pair. This time of year I would just wear a Sholler soft shell and not carry a bottom base layer… but I have an adequate sleeping bag.

Water. Aquamira is fine. Just a couple ounces. I like Platypus 1L water sacks… in case a single 2L springs a leak. A Victronix Classic knife at under an ounce will give you the same funtionality as your present one. I use the scissors a lot.

Is a bear cannister required where you are going? A Ursak or tree system is way lighter. A Photon Micro Light is around .3 ounces.

Can stoves are light… but I still prefer a lightweight cannister… old dog me.

We all have this problem of wanting to hold onto the past. I still have my old Kelty Serac full frame bag. I bet it holds over 130 liters!! I still love my Gregory Whitney 95 and sometimes still use it. And in really hot desert weather when I need to carry a couple gallons of water, my Deuter Futura Pro 42 is a dream. But 95% I go ultralight and can easily get below 10 lbs base weight. It has taken me a couple of years to really assemble a truly ultralight set up.

[Laurence Beck]

Ok – To summarize my current progress and to list a couple of possible future reductions…$$$

Savings as a result of the feedback from this forum:

6.0 oz – Toss the bladder and use two 1 oz soda bottles
5.0 oz – Toss the sleeping bag compression bag (my idea)
3.0 oz – Switch from the Water Tanks to Platypus 1L
3.6 oz – Switch to a <1oz box cutter knife
6.0 oz – Switch to a DriDucks rain jacket ($16)
2.6 oz – One less pair of underware
2.6 oz – One less pair of smart wool socks
4.0 oz – Use a plastic grocery bag to hold my cooking equipt.
0.4 oz – Take only the titanium long handled spoon (no fork)
0.7 oz – Toss the plastic water dipping cup
0.4 oz – Toss the funnel

---

34.3 oz

So, for $16, I just saved 2 lbs 2.3oz. My base weight has gone from 25.5lbs to 23.47lbs.

The next steps will require money so please send your donations to … (:

20oz – Switch Osprey 85 (76oz) to Golite Odyssey (56oz) – $150-$200
9oz – Switch Prolite4 Large (33) to Prolite4 Reg (24) – $60-$85
12oz – Switch REI Sahara Sleeping Bag (35) to Montbell Down Hugger #4 (23oz) – $250-$265
13oz – Switch from Garcia Bear Cannister (44) to Titanium Bearikade (31). $225

Total possible savings: 54oz (3lbs 6oz) which would bring my base weight down to slightly over 20 lbs.

Thank you everyone (and especially Ashley) for your help in this. I will report back to this forum as I progress.

[Nate Meinzer]

Get a cheaper and lighter pack than the odyssey…try something from ULA or granite gear. The thermarest I'd not worth the money for the weight savings…have you checked out the big agnes clearview pad ? Couple it with a nightlight 1/8" foam pad from gossamer gear; this would be lighter, cheaper, and far more comfortable.

Finally, you must ditch the tent for a tarp….huge weight savings and fun and adventurous.

[Nate Meinzer]

Oh, and for gods sake don't buy a bearikade if you can get away with renting one. Check out the wild ideas site for details.

[Dave T]

.

[Daniel Fosse]

Are you just boiling water to rehydrate food? Most Mountain House meals only need 2 cups of water or so. I noticed you mentioned mountain house in a previous post. If this is the case then a 1.1L pot is a bit much. You could save on pack weight and space by reducing the size of your cook pot. There are many other options, some are cheep. A lot of people use big beer cans for boiling water. I have a 600ml Snow Peak Ti cup that weighs 2.8OZ and is plenty big to boil 2 cups of water.

If you are actually cooking, that is a different story.

Also, if you want to keep a folding knife in your pack check out the Gerber Ultralight LST. It weighs .55oz and it's a nice little knife.

Most folks here will recomend the utility blade to which I have no strong arguement, I just like knives.

[Ashley Brown]

Excellent points from Nate and Dave.

If you are going to spend $$ then the main tips from me are:

* Buy stuff off the Gear Swap forum (here on BPL)… you'll save a bunch, and won't have any of the annoying problems you get on ebay

* Try and only buy gear that is popular amongst BPL hikers… at least until you are really sure what you want/need. The reason being, you will probably want to resell a bunch of the stuff you buy within a year or two. That's just a fact of life when it comes to going light… when you are starting out you keep realising that there are easier/lighter/better options. If you buy "popular" gear then you can be sure that it will have excellent resale value. If you buy stuff that no one else is interested in then you'll struggle to get much money back on it. Take my word on this point! I've resold about half the stuff I've bought so far, even though I was 'sure' it was exactly what I wanted/needed. The other advantage of buying "popular" is that UL gear is always popular for a reason… because it's good, so more likely to remain with you long term.

With those points in mind, I'd recommend against the GoLite pack you were suggesting. Too heavy, and poor resale value if/when you change your mind. ULA packs are highly recommended and you can often save a bunch of money by picking them up on Gear Swap for 2/3 price of new. There are plenty of other options though. But it's worth waiting until you get rid of some of your other bulkier stuff before buying a new pack — if you buy a smaller one now, it won't fit your gear, and if you buy a big one now it will be too big and heavy later when your gear is much smaller.

Sleeping pad…. as Nate says, seriously consider getting a BA Clearview and then put a Gossammer Gear thinlite (1/8") pad over the top of it. Total weight would be about 16oz or so, and it will only cost about $35.

Sleeping bag… montbell is popular, as is Western mountaineering, if you are looking at a bag rather than a quilt. You should be able to get one on Gear Swap. Occasionally though there are some good sales on montbell bags. Don't pay any more than 80% of retail price!

Tent… your current one isn't crazy heavy, so I'd be looking at spending up on your other options first. But the tarptent contrail is an excellent suggestion, also the tarptent rainbow. I've seen contrails on Gear Swap for as little as $100 (used).

If you're like most of us, you'll find it hard to decide on exactly what is the "right" gear for you to get… there are always at least two different but equally tempting options. In the end you just need to pick something and try it. But that's another reason why you should try and buy only stuff that is "good value" (eg. gear swap) and has good resale value.

Cheers, A

[Laurence Beck]

Here is my updated gear list. So far, to reiterate, I have dropped about 5 lbs from my base weight and, even though I have more to go, I am pretty damned happy about it (:

Gear List
Osprey Aether85 76.0
Pack Cover 5.6
BigAgnes SL1 Tent 42.0
REI Sahara 30 deg 35.0
Prolite 4 Large Therma-Rest 33.0
Fleece Pillow Case 1.8
Garcia Bear Cannister 44.0
Cooking Equipment (see below) 13.5
Clothes (see below) 54.4
First Aid 7.3
Toothbrush,tooth paste,soap 3.7
Toilet Paper 1.6
Camp towel 4.4
Box Cutter 0.3
Two One Liter Gatorade bottles 2.0
Nalgene Wide-Mouth Cantene – 96 oz. 2.3
Klear Water (50ml) 5.0
Headlight 2.5
Thin Rope 3.0
Plastic Clothes Pins 1.5

Total: 21 lbs 2.9oz 338.9oz

Cooking Equipment

Evernew Titanium 1100cc pot 5.8
Cooking Equip Bag 0.5
Pocket Rocket Stove 3.9
Titanium Drinking Cup 1.8
Stove Shield 0.9
Plastic Fork, Titanium Spoon 0.6

Subtotal: 13.5oz

Clothing Items
DriDucks Rain Shell 6
Teva Sandals 10.6
UL Down Jacket 9.5
UL Down Pants 8
Convertible Pant legs 5.9
1 xtra uw 2.6
1 xtra socks 2.6
knit hat/gloves 3.3
1 xtra scarf 0.8
Extra shirt 5.1
Subtotal: 54.4oz

[Ashley Brown]

Hey that's good a good effort Larry. It would be nice to be able to do that every week eh? Sadly cost and/or comfort starts to come into the equation pretty quickly.

Some more ideas for dropping weight without spending $$:

* cut down your camp towel to something pretty small, or just use a bandana… you don't have a shower up in the mountains, so a towel has pretty limited usefulness. You can use a tiny towel or bandana to give yourself a sponge bath when necessary

* you could replace your headlight with a photon freedom which weighs something like 0.3oz. Depends whether you really need your headlamp for serious work or not.

* what do you use your rope for? and the clothes pins?? Or are they both for constructing a washing line? Maybe this is another item you try leaving behind to see whether you can do without it.

[Ashley Brown]

Also, what do you need the Nalgene for if you are carrying the 2 soda bottles?

[Laurence Beck]

Ashley,

You are right, I have not compromized any comfort item so far and I have only spent $15. I like the idea of cutting down the camp towel to may 1/4th of its size.

I use the Nalgene to hold water in while it is being treated. Klear Water (which is unavailable right now) will treat a larger quantity of water with a single 1L dose if you allow it to sit overnight. So, the 3L Nalgene replaces the 6L Water Tank.

The rope and plastic clothes pins are just as you say. Wash your clothes in the afternoon when you arrive in camp and hang them up. They dry much faster when you hang them up as opposed to lying out on a rock.

Larry

[Mike Clelland]

Cut it down? You can cut out the camp towel entirley!

(my insights)

Gear List:
======

Osprey Aether85 76.0 – Wow, this is HUGE!

Pack Cover 5.6 – Nix this. You have a plastic bag lining the pack, right?

Prolite 4 Large Therma-Rest 33.0 – THis is HUGE

Fleece Pillow Case 1.8 – Nix this

First Aid 7.3 – THis is HUGE

Toilet Paper 1.6 – Just so you know – this is easily nixed

Camp towel 4.4 – Nix this

a) Two One Liter Gatorade bottles 2.0
b) Nalgene Wide-Mouth Canteen – 96 oz. 2.3 – Why both the gaitor aid bottles AND the canteen , don't take both.

Thin Rope 3.0 (What for?)

Plastic Clothes Pins 1.5 (you are joking, right?)

Plastic Fork, Titanium Spoon 0.6 – Nix the fork.

Teva Sandals 10.6 – Nix these

[Unknown abc]

>"Toothbrush,tooth paste,soap 3.7"

How long is your trip? If it is only 2-3 nights, drop these!

>"Fleece Pillow Case 1.8"

WHY???

-Evan

[Laurence Beck]

Mike – Thanks for your feedback. I have commented (explained) on each item that you mention. (see below)

One thing I might note. I am gearing this whole thing towards a 1-2w late summer mid-sept JMT. So I will need to use the "facilities and I will need to wash clothing"

=========================================================
Cut it down? You can cut out the camp towel entirley!

(my insights)

Gear List:
======

Osprey Aether85 76.0 – Wow, this is HUGE!
LB> I already know this is huge but the going suggestion is to wait until everything else is in order and then get the right pack for the gear.

Pack Cover 5.6 – Nix this. You have a plastic bag lining the pack, right?

LB>Yeah…this can be nixed as long as I keep my down bag dry…

Prolite 4 Large Therma-Rest 33.0 – THis is HUGE
LB>This will be nixed but I have not decided to go with the BA Clear View or just a smaller Thermarest.

Fleece Pillow Case 1.8 – Nix this
LB> I can't live without this and it's only 1.8oz

First Aid 7.3 – THis is HUGE
LB> Perhaps this is a subject for another thread…"What should be in a UL First Aid Kit". I'll have to search because there is probably an existing thread that deals with this already.

Toilet Paper 1.6 – Just so you know – this is easily nixed
LB> I don't know…You will need to explain this one.

Camp towel 4.4 – Nix this
LB> OK – Nixed…"I did not want to cut it up anyway :)"

a) Two One Liter Gatorade bottles 2.0
b) Nalgene Wide-Mouth Canteen – 96 oz. 2.3 – Why both the gaitor aid bottles AND the canteen , don't take both.

LB> I treat water with XiniX Klear Water. I actually believe there is nothing wrong with the water in the Sierra's anyway (if you use your head) but I treat out of superstition I guess. I have read that a 1-L dose of Klear Water will treat a gallon or more if you let it set all night. So I keep the Nalgene 3L to treat water all night. Then, in the morning I cook with it and fill the drinking bottles.

Thin Rope 3.0 (What for?)

Plastic Clothes Pins 1.5 (you are joking, right?)
LB> Rope/Clothes Pins mostly for hanging clothes to dry in the afternoon. OK – NIXED (Like Ashley said, "Hang them on a rock")
Plastic Fork, Titanium Spoon 0.6 – Nix the fork.
LB> Acutally I already nixed the fork. I forgot to take it off the listing but the Long Handled Titanium Spoon weighs about .5oz.

Teva Sandals 10.6 – Nix these
LB> I have actually tried some cheap thongs that weigh less than 4oz but they were really not comfortable and I like the Teva's for stream crossing (if it is deeper than my boots).

Total savings from NIXing the above items…

5.6 oz – Pack Cover – Nixed
4.4 oz – Camp Towel – Nixed
3.0 oz – Thin Rope – Nixed
1.5 oz – Plastic Clothes Pins – Nixed

---

14.5 oz (almost a pound)
14.5oz not including savings from reducing the first aid kit.

[Nia Schmald]

With your pack weight down you might reconsider your boots. Most on this site use light weight trail runners. I like mine with lots of mesh and no goretex so that they dry out quickly after stream crossings. In the sierras it takes about 15 min for my shoes to dry.

So I swapped 64 oz boots for 24 oz trail runners and got to eliminate 10 oz tevas at the same time. Pretty good savings. BTW take a look at all the lb off the feet is worth 5 lbs out of the pack to get an idea of how important it is saving weight on your shoes.

[Ashley Brown]

Getting lighter by the minute…!

You gotta dump those Tevas I reckon ;-)

Here's a good alternative: nylon mesh shoes with a non-slip base which weigh less than 2oz for the pair! A number of BPLers use them. You may need to size up… apparently they run a bit small (eg. I remember someone who should have been size 10/medium needed to buy the large).

Here's a thread discussing camp shoes. Have a read, and you'll see quite a few other suggestions.

[Ashley Brown]

Last time I backpacked in Alaska and had to do a few stream crossings (including one up to my thigh) I just went barefoot. River stones are never sharp, and your footing is no less stable than if you are wearing shoes. Feet can get a little cold, but you're usually across in less than a minute. A good trekking pole or stick is much more important to carry! I don't like wearing my hiking shoes into the water unless I'm literally going to be crossing streams all day.

Anyway, if you decide you don't need them for crossings then it's pretty easy to come up with some light camp shoes as suggested in the other thread. Or pop some plastic bags into your shoes as liners.

[Chris Morgan]

Cue Clelland TP link in 3…2…

[Boozer]

HAHAHAHA…Killing me Chris!!!

[Laurence Beck]

Ashley,
OK – I just ordered the nylon camp shoes. I'll put down 2oz for now (until I weigh them) so I'll check off another 8.6oz. Base Weight now at 19 lbs 14oz but I still have the 76oz pack and the 33oz thermarest to deal with.

Larry

[Ashley Brown]

Cool. You can always get a "temporary" pack off Gear Swap providing you get a good deal for it, and then resell it later if it doesn't float your boat.

The Granite Gear Vapor Trail is a reasonably popular pack. Many would still consider it heavy, but that's the difference between "lightweight" and "ultra-light" hikers. It weighs around 35 ounces I think and is plenty big, but has good compression straps so you can carry it small when necessary.

It turns up on Gear Swap pretty regularly. But you could also post a "WTB" (want to buy) post on Gear Swap and someone may offer you one. There was one listed yesterday for around $60 I think, but generally you'd probably expect to pay around $80-90 (they retail at $150).

Anyway, just an idea. The main decision you need to make with packs is whether you are willing to go frameless. If not, then the GG vapor trail or ULA Circuit would be good. If you are, then there are a bunch of lightweight frameless packs you could look at.

But do make sure you buy cheap, sell cheap… because you may have to try a couple of packs before you find one you really like. But you could find the vapor trail to try on at an REI. Have a read of some user reviews on this site and see whether you like the sound of any other packs.

[Mike Clelland]

some more insights:

= = = = = =

Pack Cover 5.6 – Nix this. You have a plastic bag lining the pack, right?

LB>Yeah…this can be nixed as long as I keep my down bag dry…

* MIKE replies:

IF you have a plastic bag, your sleeping bag will stay dry. THe HEFTY trash COMPACTOR bags are the best. If you put the sleeping bag in the bottom, and you are careful, it'll stay dry.

= = = = = =

Prolite 4 Large Therma-Rest 33.0 – THis is HUGE
LB>This will be nixed but I have not decided to go with the BA Clear View or just a smaller Thermarest.

* MIKE replies:

BPL sells the TORSO-Lite, and Montbell makes a nice UL 1/2 pad. Both 9.9 oz.

= = = = = =

Fleece Pillow Case 1.8 – Nix this
LB> I can't live without this and it's only 1.8oz

Call it a luxury item in your list, that might help minimize the grief you may get from this forum.

= = = = = =

Toilet Paper 1.6 – Just so you know – this is easily nixed
LB> I don't know…You will need to explain this one.

* MIKE replies:

Okay, please nobody freak out on me if I add this link:http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/toilet_paper_free.html

= = = = = =

a) Two One Liter Gatorade bottles 2.0
b) Nalgene Wide-Mouth Canteen – 96 oz. 2.3 – Why both the gaitor aid bottles AND the canteen , don't take both.

LB> I treat water with XiniX Klear Water. I actually believe there is nothing wrong with the water in the Sierra's anyway (if you use your head) but I treat out of superstition I guess. I have read that a 1-L dose of Klear Water will treat a gallon or more if you let it set all night. So I keep the Nalgene 3L to treat water all night. Then, in the morning I cook with it and fill the drinking bottles.

* MIKE replies:

Oh c'mon, you can go with less water capacity. Treat your water as you hike, cook on the trail next to a stream, and get your water from sources you think are NOT contaminated, and just use less KLEAR-WATER. You'll be movin' so fast that you'll get to water sources a lot more often than with a traditional load.

= = = = = =

Teva Sandals 10.6 – Nix these
LB> I have actually tried some cheap thongs that weigh less than 4oz but they were really not comfortable and I like the Teva's for stream crossing (if it is deeper than my boots).

* MIKE replies:

Boots? No way. Just walk thru the streams in LW nylon sneakers!. Ducks walk around with wet feet all the time, it's okay. And California is hot and dry, it'll feel nice.

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