GoLite 2009 Jam2 changes

[Daniel Cox]

David,
I own the Ion, the 2008 Jam 2, a Ether windshirt, and a variety of other Golite gear. I'm not bashing before trying, I'm bashing for the alteration of an already great product to try to make a line designed to be as light as functionally possible to appeal to a wider base of people while calling your company "Golite" and having multiple other lines of packs that are geared for those who like the heavier weight product. I, along with many others here, am venting my frustrations. We are looking for LIGHTER not HEAVIER and believe that the LIGHTER and SIMPLER an item is, the more functional (mostly). If you do not think Golite reps troll these forums, you are wrong. Hopefully, they will take to heart what we are saying here regarding their new changes. I really would like to be able to buy items from them in another 3 years as I have for the past 2, rather than looking at Golite products the way I do most Northface products.

[Joe Clement]

GoLite isn't owned by Timberland, Timberland merely bought the name so they could put it on shoes, and licensed it back to the original Golite for outdoor equipment.

[David Ure]

Compared to mainstream gear, Golite is still much lighter. I see what you are saying but I consider the Jam and Pinnacle to be quite feature rich – I see where the extra weight is going. I can also say that the Jam fits as much volume as my ULA Circuit and do think the capacity of the Golite packs is understated. With the new pockets even more so (they do not advertize greater capacity). Here is the kicker, however: It fits me. Better than any other frameless pack that I have tried. So the extra few ounces does not make a huge difference to me over the long haul because the darn thing simply fits better. Comparing the Jam to a Z-pack is not good. One I would take bushwacking…the other, not so much. So obviously hike your own hike.

My primary issue is that we have one post (1!!) from a member (to add legitimacy?) that bashes the Jam and Golite. Never to post again. I am not promoting Golite specifically (I have ULA packs as well) but I think that Golite is reaching out to more mainstream buyers with their product and this is not necessarily a bad thing. It brings more traditional backpackers into the UL fold. Eventually, as we all tend to do, they will migrate into purchasing gear from more of the cottage producers, which in turn encourages the cottage producers to make better products. If this didn't occur, the cottage producers would be hard pressed to continue the innovation and production that they currently provide.

Anyway, that is my perspective and I appreciate your input.

Cheers.

[te – wa]

Joe, i hope that is the case. i was told (by rumor?) that Coup sold the entire company and timberland now owns all the rights to every golite product. im not trying to spread a rumor, and if im wrong i will be first to admit it. :)

[Joe Clement]

Here you go Michael…….bottom of page 4, unless you want to read the entire article, which is pretty boring.

http://www.inc.com/magazine/20070301/features-deal-playing-hard-to-get_pagen_4.html

[te – wa]

that article was published March 2007. Im not sure if anything has changed since then, but i was told by someone who's opinion i highly respect that the GoLite brand (entire line of gear + clothing) was purchased by Timberland and then licensed back to GoLite, thus Timberland holding ultimate control. (a move that worked for the shoes, then later on the entire lineup) Regardless, and its not really important to me who is making GoLite backpacks, its sad to hear that there are many of us as a community having difficulties with the brand. The GoLite of old it seems has changed? fwiw, Im still using a '04 Jam and it has seen about 1500 miles of desert schrub, and it is doing fine. :)

sorry for the hijack, carry on.

btw, thanks Joe for the insight

[Daniel Cox]

David,
While the Dyneema fabric is tougher than Silnylon that Zpacks uses, I was more mentioning it as an example, I guess I should have said MLD, SMD, ULA, and the rest that make packs from tougher materials, but the point is they are out there. Golite, as it seems to me, has three lines of packs, one will full suspension, one seems geared towards adventure racing/more techincally loaded packs, and finally this last line that the Ion and Jam 2 are in, that they call the Ultra Series. The first line is the one appealing to the heavier weight crowd, and that is just fine, but it seems they are steping back this last line further from the edge of UL than progressing further. And yes the place of the cottage industries will always be to push the edge further out with regards to lightness or customization, but with Golite does not seem to be following the typical pattern which itself drives the cottage industry, which is to say adoption of innovation from the cottage industry. My gripe here is the increase of weight by nearly 25%! I personally ripped out various features when I got my Jam 2 to lighten it, and there have been several threads about modifications to make the pack lighter, so this is something not unique to me, though I won't go so far as to call it common. The increased weight is, for those of us who agonize over an ounce or two, a huge issue and essentially now makes one of my favorite packs no longer recommendable as someones first frameless.

As for the pack fitting you better (I assume your comparing it to the 2008 version) obviously that is a matter of personal body shape and comfort. I would always recommend using a pack that is comfortable for you, however I personally have found that frameless packs are far more comfortable in general if your gear list is light enough to use them.

[Joe Clement]

And Timberland has sold the GoLite shoe line to a company called New England shoes, with the original designer.

[Nick Truax]

Well, after much hemming and hawing, I re-purchased the 2009 Golite Jam and preemptively bar tacked the shoulder straps at all four corners. The pack fits and carries well despite the sewing issues, so I am braving a 3rd 2009 jam2 that hopefully stands up to its (previously good) reputation. The pack was also purchased from an online retailer w/a lifetime return policy so I am hedging my bets with the sewing reinforcements and the return policy.

I will try my best to post any further issues/successes as the jam2 will soon be put to an extended N. Rockies trial.

As for the talon 44- too many bells and whistles for me.

David- A touch of defensiveness does not help a company's reputation as I am sure you know. I was not bashing a product, but was simply stating an observation of quality issues that were reoccurring…info that the community should be aware of(as well as the company).

Michael – Thanks for the suggestions! I look forward to trying MLD or ULA in the future as my budget allows but currently can't justify the price w/out being able to try the pack on prior. I know – that's the way it goes w/cottage industries, but it does limit some of us on a budget. But thanks to the many posts, pack/gear specifics are in abundance and I should be able to narrow down the options fairly easily.
I do hope that the new jam2 works out and I appreciate all the info here on BPL.

[Zijiang Yang]

is REI selling the 2009 Ver?

http://www.rei.com/product/781550

[Kevin Yang]

"is REI selling the 2009 Ver?"

Yes, that's the 09 version.

[Zijiang Yang]

is all the changes on 2009 Jam2 apply to Pinnacle 2009?

especially the existing of zippered mesh waist belt pockets with internal organizers..

[David Ure]

"is all the changes on 2009 Jam2 apply to Pinnacle 2009?

especially the existing of zippered mesh waist belt pockets with internal organizers.."

Yes – the changes are the same.

[David Ure]

"David- A touch of defensiveness does not help a company's reputation as I am sure you know. I was not bashing a product, but was simply stating an observation of quality issues that were reoccurring…info that the community should be aware of(as well as the company). "

No defensiveness. You are the only one that I have heard of this happening to yet the remarks coming from others was as if this is the norm. Hasn't happened to me nor anyone who has Golite products that I know of. We must be lucky.

[Ray Dunham]

I recieved my 2009 replacement Jam and all stitching and quality seem excellent. My first Jam must have been a lemon with poor haul loop stitching. I will provide future updates associated with use.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Good thread guys….the info on the changes is great to have all in one spot. Anyone having more troubles? Or positive experiences with the '09 Jams?

[Ray Dunham]

Just an update……I have the very original Jam and love the fit. Purchased the 2009 Jam and had to send it back because the haul loop tore out. Received a new 2009 Jam and quality was very good with no problem.

However, the fit of the 2009 is very different from the original and in my opinion not nearly as comfortable. I used it for a couple of hikes and it was just OK for comfort. Original was much more comfortable in my opinion.

My go to pack now is the ULA Ohm…..awesome pack…..awesome quality…..awesome comfort. Brian has created a real gem with this one.

[Nate Meinzer]

I have a 2008 Jam that I've used extensively, and my partner has a new 2009 Jam, so I've been able to compare them.

I have to say, despite the extra weight, I'm jealous of the new Jam. The mesh on the back panel and hipbelts adds a lot of stability and comfort, and the hip-belt pockets are great.

I don't think the fit is any different (for me), and if I were going to do it again, I'd just get the new one and not be such a gram-weenie.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

I've done some modifications to my 2009 Jam and I figured I'd share the details.

1) I cut the stitching on the sides of the hydration bladder sleeve (with a sharp knife and razor blade) and cut the fabric along the bottom since the seam is too dangerous to cut as it's right in a main seam. This was easy with the pack inside out. With the bladder and bladder clip removed, I shaved 28g (1.0oz) off the pack.

2) I cut about 3" off the sterum strap and about 5-6" off the shoulder and waist straps. This shaved off 25g (0.9oz). The waist belt straps are by far the largest and where most of the weight savings lie. I'm a thinner guy (5'11", 165lbs) so that should give you an idea of how much you can cut. I melted the ends of the straps which worked great although they do now slide through the buckle if I loosen the straps too far. I cut the shoulder straps almost too short (I should have filled the pack up with stuff before I decided how much to cut).

I did not cut the roll top strap, as it seems you need pretty much the whole strap when the pack is super-loaded….even though there seems to be a ton of extra when the pack is empty.

I also did not cut the side compression straps. These straps have a ton of slack if you don't want to be able to clip the two sides together. For now I'm keeping the extra straps here in case I ever need to bring my ridgerest. Clipping the side compression straps together to hold the ridgerest on the back of the pack is pretty much the only way to do this unless you rig up something on the bottom of the pack. I might just bring some thin cord and clip these straps…not sure yet. You could probably cut about 12" off each of the 4 straps which I bet would easily save an ounce.

Keep in mind the 2008 Jam2 did not have the ability to clip these side compression straps together, so of the 5oz gained for 2009 this extra strap length is likely the cause of 1-1.5oz and it is reversable if it's not valuable. I would say the hipbelt pockets are responsible for another 2-3oz….so in total these reversable updates are likely responsible for most of the weight gain.

3) The foam in the back panel weighs 34g (1.2oz). I like having this as it improves comfort and gives the pack a bit of shape (because I don't use a pad as an faux frame) but you could remove it.

FWIW, my 2009 Jam pack with the hydration bladder removed and some straps cut weighs 699g (24.6oz) and it would likely weigh around 21oz without the hipbelt pockets and back foam.

[Nick Truax]

UPDATE:
I purchased a ULA circuit and used it as a comparison to the 2009 jam over a 4+ month period of travelling and backpacking. Mostly a ~10lb baseweight with up to ~15 lbs consumables for the long trips. I alternated the 2 packs for various trips with no rhyme or rhythm.

I concluded that the ULA carried loads over 15lbs much better than the jam, especially over 3+ consecutive days. But…apples to oranges because of the circuit's internal frame and load lifters. As for the jam's shoulder straps, they did not show any signs of pulling out after I bartacked the heck out of the 4 points of contact (due to previous sewing issues). No issues in quality on the ULA. The jam carried well on lighter overnights and weekends but seems to have excessive volume for its carrying capacity (barring the use of lighter and higher volume winter gear).

I have opted for what I feel is a better-made overall pack while supporting a fellow hiker and an US-made product. 3 birds w/ one stone despite it taking a few months to sort out. Out with the jam and in with the ULA.

[David Ure]

"Out with the jam and in with the ULA."

Can't argue with that.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

If you went with the ULA Ohm, you'd kill 4 birds because it's lighter than the Jam too. Have you considered the Ohm?

[Nick Truax]

I have actually been hemming and hawing over the Ohm vs the Conduit. I may opt for the lighter (and smaller) of the two just so that I am forced to minimize my ways. Suggestions are much appreciated -SMD, MLD, etc. But as there is snow on the ground and it is supposed to be 10F or less tonight here in MT, I can probably postpone this decision till spring. Volume-wise the Circuit should be fine for any shorter winter excursions.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

The GG Gorilla is an interesting looking pack. It might be too small (2800 cu in) if you are worried the Ohm is too small (3500 cu in) but perhaps you could use the Gorilla as a summer pack.

The Gorilla has a removable frame, hipbelt and sternum strap so it weighs 15 – 21 oz depending on how you set it up. It seems like a great pack for weekend getaways (in 15oz mode) and for longer summer trips (in 21oz mode) and then you could use the Circuit when you can't fit everything in 2800 cu in.

[Joe Clement]

I haven't used my Conduit yet, but I think I would like the frame in the Ohm.

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