Jan 30, 2009 at 4:50 pm #1233676
Recent postings have speculated on the 2009 changes to the GoLite Jam2. Based on a side-by-side comparison of a new 2009 Jam2 to the original Jam2, the changes include:
— Added spacer mesh to the back panel.
— Added mesh to the waist belt fins (providing slight padding).
— Added zippered mesh waist belt pockets with internal organizers (small flat pockets-inside-the-pockets, approx. 3"x4", presumably for keys, lighter, etc.).
— Replaced the compactor hooks on the bottom of the pack with a larger style(the same as those used for the ice axe retention loops).
— Side compression straps can now be streteched across the back and joined to the opposite side, as on the Venture series.
— Replaced the compression strap buckles with a different type (which seem to provide easier adjustments).
— Replaced the waterproof zipper on the back pocket with a regular zipper covered by a flap.
— Changed the type of mesh used for the internal hydration sleeve.
— Changed the pack bag fabric. (A GoLite representative told me the fabric has not changed but it clearly has. The new fabric seems to be what MLD calls "Dyneema X," with an additional nylon X pattern overweave at 45 degrees to the Dyneema grid.)
— Added a built-in whistle to the sternum strap buckle.
— Enlarged the haul loop.
— The back vertical seams are no longer flat felled (single row of stiching instead of two).
— Side pocket construction (the way they are sewn to the main bag) has been modified and the elastic used on the top of the pockets is stretchier.
— The attachment points of the ice axe loops and bottom compactor buckle loops have been reinforced.
The dimensions seem to be unchanged. The weight has increased approx. 7 oz, from 20 oz to 27 oz (men's large, measured on my scale, rounded to the nearest ounce).
My comparison was based on the original Jam2, purchased in Jan-07. I do not know if any changes were introduced in 2008 but GoLite confirmed the major 2009 differences — back and waist belt mesh, waist belt pockets, compactor improvements, and back pocket zipper.
Pros (imho): Waist belt pockets (!), back and waist belt mesh, improved compactor system. The "Dyneema X" supposedly improves abrasion and tear resistance but I have been satisfied with the performance of regular Dyneema.
Cons: Significantly heavier. Vertical seams appear to be weaker.Jan 30, 2009 at 5:08 pm #1474156
Ben 2 WorldBPL Member
@ben2worldLocale: So Cal
Thanks for the info, Ken!Jan 30, 2009 at 8:04 pm #1474194
well looks like I'm not missing out on much then. I just purchased the 2008 model from the rei-outlet for $53… I have a couple sets of the whistle buckles laying around, which I was going to install when it comes in anyhow. I figured I would make a real basic hip pocket for it also with scrap silnylon laying around. The only reason I even really use the hip pocket on my present pack is to keep the camera at the ready.
another con to add to that list, the price went up $25 to $125 for that extra 5 to 7 ounces and a couple features… thanks for the side by side comparison. Can you post up some pics of the new features side by side?Jan 30, 2009 at 9:00 pm #1474207
i have only 2 issues with that report: the men's medium i had was 21oz when new, it was heavier than the large? arrggh! but the 08 model i had was dyneema "x" maybe that's the weight difference?
in other news, brian frankle makes positive changes to the much loved Conduit, lowers the price, and loves his fellow backpackers as he loves himself (timberland, otoh, sees us as walking $ signs) boo!Jan 31, 2009 at 12:34 am #1474246
um, did you weight the 2009 model or the 2008 model. the 2008 model was 21oz – 22oz while the brand new one as of like 2 weeks ago is supposedly 26oz to 27oz
which is why i was going to buy the conduit, till i stumbled across the '08 jam2 for $53. what can i say i'm poor and $50 is another $50 still in my pocket. maybe towards the end of the season or next season i'll get a conduit. the only other thing that was holding me back on the conduit was the bear canister deal. I rarely need to carry one but in the Olympic National Park it is required in the alpine areas or any camp that does not have bear wires hung by the park service…Jan 31, 2009 at 6:21 am #1474256
Jamie ShorttBPL Member
@jshorttLocale: North Carolina
My golite medium Jam2 (purchased last year) weighed 20.50 oz brand new. I was able to cut off 4 oz and still have the foam pad and pocket.
Golite is showing the new pack at 6-7 oz higher which is an increase of ~33% for what?…I'd say a pack that can carry heavier loads and pockets…a place to put more gear. This is the wrong direction in my book.
If they are going to do this they really need to add a new pack in the series that is between the Ion (10oz) and Jam2 (26 oz). volume of 2500, dyneema fabric, simple waist belt, NO backpad!, 2 side pockets and one back pocket, roll top. This pack would weigh probably around 16 oz (maybe less).
Until they come up with a lower feature, less weight, lower cost pack I'm going to recommend Granite Gears Virga for the masses and for those who buy from cottage shops it is the ULA conduit, MLD Prophet or Exodus.
I wonder if the Jam2 will stay on the NOLS list for the lightweight class.Jan 31, 2009 at 1:13 pm #1474316
@burkestLocale: Collegiate Peaks Wilderness
I also wonder if Andrew Skurka will stop using the jam2 because of the increase in weight and the change in design philosophy. Although he probably has multiple old jam2's sitting around for his use over the next few years.Feb 3, 2009 at 11:27 am #1475078
Here are some photos comparing the new and old models. The new version is on the right side or top, old version on the left or bottom.
Front view. The waterproof pocket zipper has been replaced with a standard zipper covered by a flap. The attachment point for the top compression strap buckle has been relocated.
Back view. Mesh has been added to the back panel and waist belt fins.
Waist belt. Zippered waist belt pockets have been added. Note the internal organizer pocket.
Compactor hooks. The bottom compactor hooks have been replaced with a larger type. The attachment points for the ice axe loops and compactor buckle loops have been reinforced.
Compression straps. The compression strap buckles have been replaced with a different style. Straps are easier to adjust in the new version.
Fabric. The fabric has been changed to "Dyneema X." Note the black overweave at 45 degrees to the white Dyneema grid.
Haul loop. The haul loop has been enlarged.
Compression straps. The compression straps can now be stretched across the pack and joined to the other side.
Detail of new backpanel and belt mesh
If anybody would like a lightly used old model, check out the Gear Swap forum.Feb 3, 2009 at 12:24 pm #1475098
Just my 2 cents, I had a 07 ( don't ask) and a 08 and have played with the 09 while i like some of the changes on the 09 I don't like them enough to ever buy one. If Golite would come out with something in-between the Jam2 and the Ion I think they would have it perfect. It seems like many manufacturers are missing that 2000 ci size. While gear gets smaller and lighter packs in this category seem to get larger for the large size and smaller for the small size with nothing in-between. Ive given up and decided to make my own. AliFeb 3, 2009 at 12:45 pm #1475104
i still cant help but wonder how you have a '08 model that is NOT dyneema-X. although i cannot look at my Jam2 ('08) because I sold it to Dennis, I am quite positive it was Dyneema-X
do you think there was a mid-year transition to this fabric? that is possible…
and I got my conduit the other day.. im likin' itFeb 3, 2009 at 1:02 pm #1475114
I purchased mine in Jan 2007, so perhaps they changed the fabric for the 2008 version.Feb 3, 2009 at 1:22 pm #1475126
see last post below
i am going to test the waterproofness of my new Conduit, which has been using dyneema X for years. Although, I dont know if Brian Frankle has ever used this information as a sales angle
possibly the "x" fabric used by other pack makers is of better quality than GoLite's version. :)
my 2¢Feb 3, 2009 at 1:56 pm #1475139
Cayenne RedmonkBPL Member
@redmonkLocale: Greater California Ecosystem
were the seams sealed on that outside pocket ?Feb 3, 2009 at 2:20 pm #1475142
no seams involved. the leak was about 4" above the pocket. i had a 2L platy with the hole facing the fabric. I know the hole is there, its very small and only beads water out on its own. Under pressure (say, sqeezing very hard with hands) it still doesnt shoot out, only leaks faster. It leaked out and wetted the pack. Not much science involved in this discovery… platy leaked, pack wetted out. lesson learned.
thx for asking… mikeFeb 3, 2009 at 5:47 pm #1475197
the dyneema Ron Bell uses was named "x" when that is not a widely used "trade name" (its likely AYCE's term..or Ron's)
golite's version of the material although containing an extra stitching on the 45° is not called "x" (at least not by them)
here's what GoLite says
"The resulting pack fabric [speaking of the Jam2] is extremely light and durable, and is somewhat water resistant – designed for the rigors of backpacking and mountaineering"
I have come to realize that the Dyneema "x" found on the Golite Jam may not be coated the way Ron's packs are, so sorry for any confusion. Ron and I have been talking about this possibily recently. No word from Golite as of yet..
peace, mikeFeb 3, 2009 at 6:29 pm #1475222
the 2008 model has the same dyneema-x fabric as the 2009, and the ice axe loop's stitching is reinforced also, just not the compacter clips. that mesh on the backpanel really isn't going to be worth the weight either. It's similar to the stuff on the back of my REI UL65. guess what, my back is still soaked… not to mention for 50 cents a piece i got a few of those whistle buckles, so my 2008 has a bright orange whistle on the pack also. if i really wanted a grey buckle i could pillage it off my UL65. but the hip pockets make me slightly envious, barely… guess I'll have to add an ounce to my pack and add a hip pouch for my camera.
thanks for the side by side picturesFeb 3, 2009 at 6:50 pm #1475230
@strong806Locale: Near the AT
Does the mesh backpanel reduce the need to use your sleeping pad as a frame?
Anyone use a BMW torsolite in the '09 Jam2?Feb 3, 2009 at 7:26 pm #1475240
I am disappointed and confused by/with the design change.Feb 5, 2009 at 3:15 pm #1475698
1)to my knowledge Go-lite used Dyneema X in some of their packs in '08 and not in others. My guess is two different production runs/shipment dates from overseas, so as consumers you see some with and some without…likely dependent on when you bought. The other confusing thing is that Go-Lite lays out their patterns on the standard Dyneema 90 degree grid at a 45 degree angle (ref BPL Podcast) which gives the packs a different (and unique!) look.
2)Dyneema X seems to be the name adopted by most now when describing standard 210 denier Dyneema Gridstop with the additional 45 degree weave of nylon thread. Just as a point of reference, this is the same material ULA has used for ~3 years. I called it Dyneema Crossrip, but Ron at MLD choose the much more hip "X" and that seems to have stuck. Dyneema "X" is not measureable heavier than non-"X" Dyneema.
3)As for the weight in a '09 Jam 2, much of it comes from the addition of the 3-d Spacer Mesh in the backpanel and hipbelt. While it looks light, that stuff is typically 7.5-10.5 oz per square yard. Nearly double 210 D Dyneema. In addition, hipbelt pockets usually add 1.5 oz per side, and the longer webbing lengths for the wrap around compression straps jack it up a bit as well.
4)Having not seen a Jam 2 for years, I cannot speculate how the seams are finished, but Go-Lite may have also altered their construction methods for greater integrity and added weight there also.
BrianFeb 6, 2009 at 5:09 am #1475821
Jonathan RyanBPL Member
@jkrew81Locale: White Mtns
"to my knowledge Go-lite used Dyneema X in some of their packs in '08 and not in others"
good call Brian, I was just noticing the other day that my '08 Pinnacle is Dyneema XFeb 25, 2009 at 7:01 pm #1480794
Nick TruaxBPL Member
@nicktruaxLocale: SW Montana
I have recently purchased my second 2009 jam2 and on both of em, the shoulder straps have been poorly sewn. With a base weight of approximately 10 lbs (+/- 1.5 lb)in both, with 6 to 9 lbs of food and no water, the R shoulder strap started ripping after merely wearing the pack at home…in both instances. I am greatly let down by a supposedly improved product that costs more than its predecessor. So much, that this is my first posting on BPL as to inform potential buyers of a sub-quality product.
After my first shoulder strap tearing, I thought it may be misplaced stitching and ordered another while returning the first. Sure enough, the second jam2 had better stitching which ran out past the point of strap contact at the shoulders. The first jam2 was not stitched where the load would pull at this connection – it was stitched just short of the outermost edge of the shoulder strap where it connects to the body of the bag.
Upon receiving my second 2009 jam2, I checked the problem areas of stitching at these outer strap edges and saw that they were stitched properly past the point of contact. I even went home and seam-sealed the 4 areas of stitching that may cause problems, only to find the same area tearing again with a sub-20 lb load. While it is not UL or SUL, I feel that this weight is well w/in the pack's carrying capacity & was definitely unimpressed. Maybe I should have bar tacked the suspect areas but I feel that is unnecessary w/ a brand new pack. I am now looking for a new pack from another manufacturer, possibly the talon 44. I truly like the design of the jam2 and if it weren't for the second strap failure I would probably stick w/ it.
Just my 2 cents, and I hope this info helps.Mar 11, 2009 at 12:33 pm #1484711
@raymondLocale: SE US
I just receive my new Jam and the haul loop over the right shoulder strap pulled out as soon as I put about 10 lbs of weight in the pack. I promptly sent it back for a new one.
Seems Golite may have a problem with the shoulder strap / haul loop sewing. I will keep everyone posted once I receive my new one. All other stitching seemed fined.
RayMar 11, 2009 at 3:45 pm #1484781
@stilldtcLocale: The desert
Wow! Of all of those changes the only worthwhile one in my opinion is the compression straps connecting when crossed over the back! On the bright side, with Golite slowly becoming Go-overly-complex-and-heavy, the cottage industries out there like MLD and Zpack are going to get quite the boost in sales. I know where I am going to look for my next pack purchase…Mar 11, 2009 at 4:48 pm #1484790
Hey Daniel – try one on. You might be amazed at the comfort. Bashing brands prior to using one of their products in the field is really getting old.Mar 11, 2009 at 4:48 pm #1484791
man, i feel your guys pain. but, GoLite may have found a new home with Timberland, im not sure they have kept the same quality control..
Nicolas, if you are looking further for "cottage" gear (which golite seems NOT to be, anymore) please consider the ULA Conduit or Ohm. I have replaced my '08 Jam2 with a Conduit and it was the best move I ever made. Brain Frankle's stitching does not come out.
too bad it seems, we are losing one of the great companies that helped start the UL 'revolution' by going to mainstream audience and losing quality along the way.. i have no direct experience with the newest line of products (post '08) but i see more and more negative views of golite lately, and its disheartening. :(
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