Jan 30, 2009 at 4:23 pm #1233675
Since spring is approaching (slowly) I have been researching some new teqniques that will enable me to go SUL (with a cooking system!), spring to fall.
There are a lot of things on this list I need to buy to break the SUL barrier, but I know that I wont have it all this year so until then I will simply read off the "Function" column and improvise the "Example" with gear I already own when packing for a trip.
Please feel free to comment,
EvanJan 30, 2009 at 4:41 pm #1474149
@quoddyLocale: New York/Vermont Border
A good gear list, particularly for a start. One thing, not affecting pack weight, that stood out as an error was the shoe weight. That weight is for only one shoe in an 8.5 or 9. My Terroc 330's list as 11.5oz, but in a 10.5 just one weights 13.3oz. That's what comes of being obsessive and having a gram/ounce digital scale on my desk. Good luck with the 1oz pad under the quilt. Have you actually tried it? I often use a Nightlight torso at 3.5oz and that's pushing it.Jan 30, 2009 at 4:46 pm #1474150
Thanks for correcting me on the shoes. I wear a size 13.
I said 1.5 oz. for sleeping pad I meant for it to only close off the gap below me (cutting it to about 8in. wide – and leaving it as long as it comes) when using the quilt (since it does'nt wrap all the way around), not a comfort item.
My primary "sleeping pad" will be just leaves, pine needles, and boughs underneath me.Jan 31, 2009 at 7:35 am #1474272
@jshorttLocale: North Carolina
Evan, Looks like a lot of great specialized choices. Since you say there are a lot of items you need to buy I would caution against building a gear list of items that are not available. I dont think your tarp or bivy are available (both critical items). Also make sure you understand the limitations of the pro 90 quilt. This quilt states it has 1/2" loft, loft isnt everything, but 1/2" is still 1/2". Maybe some owners can speculate on temps, but I'll toss out 40 degrees min in the bivy+themawrap+warm hat.
If you are only going for warmer nights then I would drop the surplus gloves. Your combined glove weight is more then your pack. I'd also drop the sleeping socks. Warmer nights in a synthetic bag. I use the "next days" socks to sleep in…this way they are already on my feet and ready to hike…also means they have had a day to dry out. This all assumes you have extra hiking socks, which I dont see (-3 oz gloves, -1.5 oz for socks, possibly)
I own a virga jacket and wisp windshirt, but I dont find that I need both. If using my ponchtarp I take the wisp, if using a regular tarp I take the virga. I dont seem to have a big issue with the breathability of the virga, it works fine for me as a wind jacket. (-3 oz for wisp)
Gaitors, unless in snow I wouldnt take'm. If you are going to be in subfreezing temps then I'd take a beefier bag. (-4.5 oz)
I dont see a stove? Are you going to cook on a fire? This requires locations where campfires are permitted and it requires skill, easy if dry, much harder if it rains. I would at least add some esbit tabs. Use rocks to prop up the mug and put a tab underneath. Also the tab will work great as a firestarter.
Pad is 1.5 oz…this isnt much of a pad. Leaves are fine for warmer nights, but again this requires additional time and skill in locating sites with thick forest layers. Your pad also needs to be your frame for your pack. I'm concerned a 1.5 oz will not be enough structure for 15 lb pack (gear+food+water) especially if it is 8" wide (not sure how this will work).
I'd recommend dropping gloves, wisp, gators (saving 10.5 oz) and use this to add a lower rated bag and 3/8" trimmed closed cell pad (golite ultra 20 and GG thinlight trimmed to 40" adding 6-7 oz). You would actually come out several ounces lighter and be able to tackle much colder conditions and your pack should ride better.
Again you have an incredible list, but one that also requires some special skills and the time to emply them: packing a frameless, setting up a tarp, fire building, camp selection, etc.
Good luck, JamieJan 31, 2009 at 1:42 pm #1474322
>"but one that also requires some special skills and the time to emply them: packing a frameless, setting up a tarp, fire building, camp selection, etc."
Skills I have already:
1.builiding good cooking fire, check.
2.setting up atarp properly, check.
3.camp selection, check.
I think that I will take your sugg. of removing those items and replacing them with a better sleeping bag and sleeping pad.
What do you mean by >"I dont think your tarp or bivy are available (both critical items)."?
CheersJan 31, 2009 at 1:43 pm #1474323
Who was it that replaced the PDF link with an active one?
-EvanJan 31, 2009 at 2:14 pm #1474330
@jshorttLocale: North Carolina
What do you mean by >"I dont think your tarp or bivy are available (both critical items)."?
The tarp and bivy are both out of stock on this site…and have been for porbably a year or more. I'm guessing sometime in 09 we might see some new tarps and bivy show up, but no BMW's for now.
I'd recommend going to Mountain Laurel Designs. Similar items are available on that website. Great gear, but it will take some time to get them made.
JamieJan 31, 2009 at 2:39 pm #1474332
CheersJan 31, 2009 at 6:52 pm #1474374
1. You'll need more than 4 stakes. 6 at the least, and 8 for all the points. I am all for carrying stakes in summer for tarp camping.
2. Have you slept on just the plastizone pad? Remember, you'll spend about 1/3 of your time on that pad.
3. If you are in northern idaho, the water should be really clean. And you'll be nimble enough to travel to a good spring. Leave the coffee filters behind. The bandana will do the same thing. Or, a bug head-net.
4. 26 oz per day of food is a smidge high for 3 days. You could easily and safely go down to 24 oz per day (or even 22) and be fine for a short trip. Be careful not to take too much – you other numbers are impressivly LOW, and the food should be too.
5. Why 3.5 days of food? In essence, that's enough for 4 nights out, if you plan to start in the afternoon, and finish early in the day. Again, be careful to keep the food weigh low to match your gear weights.
Beyond that, It looks really nice!Jan 31, 2009 at 7:21 pm #1474381
3.5 days (and 4 nights) as shown below…
leave the road head after NOON
day 1 – FRI
day 2 – SAT
day 3 – SUN
1/4 day (return to car by NOON)Jan 31, 2009 at 8:13 pm #1474393
Thanks, Mike, I always look forward to reading your posts!
I have slept on cold concrete and the ground w/o a sleeping pad at all (when i forgot it on a canoeing trip) lol, (although I find this very uncomfortable), so im sure the skimpy foam will be just fine.
Nixxing the coffe filters!
I am going to reduce it to 24 oz. per day, but thats as far as im going down, just to remain comfortable and content in the backcountry.
are you sure I cant get away with only 4 stakes?
I've pitched tarps w/o any stakes using rocks, deadman anchors, roots, bushes, and trees (oh, and native stakes that i wittled)
-EvanJan 31, 2009 at 8:28 pm #1474394
24 oz is 1.5 pound per person per day. A good number!
Also – I am Not sure of the configuration of the tarps particular tie-outs, but a tarp will need to protect you in a storm.
Sure – you can get by with minimal stakes in low elevation, but it gets more complicated in alpine terrain above tree line. I'VE TAKE ZERO stakes and been just fine, but I now find I like them for a truly drim tight wrinkle free shelter. I made a set from titanium wire (VERY light)…
M!Jan 31, 2009 at 9:08 pm #1474399
@creachenLocale: East Bay
Panel size or Number of stakes? More Impostant? Never save weight on tent stakes or guy lines!Jan 31, 2009 at 9:46 pm #1474408
But if you are hiking below treeline, trees can be a reliable soursce for ridgeline "staking", right?Jan 31, 2009 at 9:57 pm #1474409
I have decided to add an alcohol stove system to this list to make it more flexible.
This is the stove I will be using, it'll just be homemade.
Anyway, my Question is, how much does HEET weigh per fl. Oz.?
EvanJan 31, 2009 at 10:16 pm #1474411
I am pretty sure that as far as insect repellent goes, DEET is where it is at. I have heard concerns over directly applying Peremethrin to your skin, but that multiple studies have confirmed the harmlessness of DEET. Peremethrin is generally used, and considered safe, as a chemical to treate your clothing. I think that insect repellents work by making you invisible to the creepies and the crawlies and most importantly the blood suckers (though I have no idea how), so your peremethrin-treated clothes mask those parts of your body and the DEET finishes the job by cloaking your exposed limbs. Just a few drops will suffice, so you can keep your container. However, DEET has been known to melt certain plastics, so if you have extra BPL droppers laying around, you might want to use those.
Best of luck!
JedJan 31, 2009 at 10:20 pm #1474412
The stuff i meant to say just couldnt remember the name of it used in Go-Ready spray bottles was Picaridin.
I have decided to discontinue use of 100% DEET because it irritates my skin and i dont like the smell.
-EvanJan 31, 2009 at 10:51 pm #1474417
I discontinued the use of 100% DEET when it turned the handles of my trekking poles sticky. As in melted them.Jan 31, 2009 at 11:05 pm #1474419
Last summer I toke two pieces of plastic and sprayed DEET on one and Go-Ready on the other (and circled the to-be-affected area with permanent marker and labeled them), then set them both in the sun for a week. When I checked on it, the structural integrity of the DEET sheet was severly damaged!Jan 31, 2009 at 11:07 pm #1474420
updates made to list and alcohal stove system included, but base weight is STILL SUL!
Goodnight everyone…or i mean good morning if you are East of the Pacific time zone, lol.
-EvanFeb 1, 2009 at 3:20 am #1474431
yep, four stakes if using a couple trees to set up a tarp.Feb 1, 2009 at 6:31 am #1474434
1. Okay – if you plan on camping in the trees, 4 stakes will do it, improvise with any remaining tie down needs.
2. A 1.9 oz Stainless steel can? An aluminum can would be lighter, a trimmed down beer can for example. Or titanium (expensive). I have a dinky aluminum cat food bowl that would be perfect, these things are easily found in our kitchens.
3. You can get by with a little less than 50 feet of bear hang cordage. 40 fee would be fine. And the min-biner is a luxury, a simple knot onto the bag is fine.
4. The leatherman MICRA is a real porker! A simple single edge razor blade (0.1 oz) will be plenty.
Here's the link…
Yes, I know it's around your neck (is that cheating?), but c'mon – TWO OUNCES?!?!?
5. No need to double bag the drink powder. You'll have a second bag anyway AFTER you eat your first meal!
6. I've chimed in too many times on these forums about TP, do whatever you want. But, you CAN go without…
7. Repackage the peruell in a BPL mini dropper bottle.
8. A true orienteering compass with a mirror? Will you need it? A simple compass will do just fine.
9. Add a few yards of duct tape to your poles. THis is a good repair kit and addition to the first aid kit too. If the platy gets a leak, this is invaluable…
10. Is the long underwear truly a WORN ITEM? I foresee that being in your pack most of the time (no cheating to get the SUL weight). Maybe add it to the sleeping system.Feb 1, 2009 at 1:44 pm #1474529
>"2. A 1.9 oz Stainless steel can?"
It works fine, all my stuff in cooking kit fits perfectly in it(except spork) and I don't want to spend anymore money on this than i have to.besides, i can't scratch it.
maybe i'll switch to aluminum.
>"4. The leatherman MICRA is a real porker!…"
no it's not for all the features it has!!!
"… A simple single edge razor blade (0.1 oz) will be plenty."
how do you control the blade w/o a handle? I dont know if thats all that practical.
>"Yes, I know it's around your neck (is that cheating?), but c'mon – TWO OUNCES?!?!?"
thats not cheating!!!
>"5. No need to double bag the drink powder. You'll have a second bag anyway AFTER you eat your first meal!"
>"6. I've chimed in too many times on these forums about TP, do whatever you want. But, you CAN go without…"
I'm not that crazy!!!
>"7. Repackage the peruell in a BPL mini dropper bottle."
why? the mini sized bottle it comes in does'nt even register on my postal scale! it can't weigh that much more than a BPL mini dropper.
>"8. A true orienteering compass with a mirror? Will you need it? A simple compass will do just fine.
that's my compass and ive used it for years. I am totally confident in it and my orienteering knowledge.
>"9. Add a few yards of duct tape to your poles."
Already done that, just forgot to say it.
>"10. Is the long underwear truly a WORN ITEM? I foresee that being in your pack most of the time (no cheating to get the SUL weight). Maybe add it to the sleeping system."
I forsee me actually wearing it in 3-season weather. maybe in summer i would add it to sleep system.
decided that 8 stakes will be good for me for use with trees, if i were to try using this kit above treeline of with a forecast of foul weather, i would use apx. 12 stakes.
-EvanFeb 1, 2009 at 4:11 pm #1474578
A. THe tiny LEATHERMAN is (actually) a real porker, especially for SUL.
Answer this question for yourself: What will you actually use the leatherman for??? Really, you NEED to answer this question.
I've done two weeks with nothing but the single edge razor, and I never needed it for anything! What are you gunna cut? A piece of string? The (0.1 oz) razor is fine!
And wearing it around your neck is cheating, sorta (kinda).
B. As stated previously: About TP, do whatever you want. But, you CAN go without…"
C. You said 2 ounces for your compass. That's what my SILVA Ranger weighs. Your (2-explorer) compass weighs 1.4 oz. and it's perfect.Feb 1, 2009 at 4:17 pm #1474583
Alright, i'm ditching the multi-tool, and i know where to get a razor blade for cheap.
So, how do i carry the razor blade without it cutting the contents of my pack (and pack) to smitherenes?
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