Misc survival gear – why do I have these?

[Eric Fredricksen]

I'm just going over some of the "survival" items in my gear list and realizing I have no real rationale for having them, other than that they don't weigh much and seem survival-y. I'm not super experienced so I'm hoping someone who is is willing to chime in with an opinion on which of these items are worth toting.

3rd light source – I use tiny Photon lights and they're insignificant enough that rather than bring a spare battery, you might as well bring the whole light. But I have a Fenix L0D on my list in case I need to go super-bright for some reason I can't imagine. Can anyone else?

3rd fire source – After a mini-bic and a fire steel (or maybe hurricane matches instead), is there really any call for more?

Compass – This always seems important, but I've never ever needed or used it and (assuming I'm sticking to trails) it seems like a horrible, tiny, crappy keychain compass would be good enough if I ever really needed it to survive.

Rescue flash – I don't really have much idea how important this is.

Space blanket – What do I want this for? I guess for day hikes in case I can't get back to my bag? I never think to daypack it anyway.

Spare cord – I started with 50' of triptease and have trimmed it down to 12', but I have absolutely no idea what emergency I have it for.

[Unknown abc]

I see you are trying to trim your survival gear.

The only "survival" items I carry (even on dayhikes)
are a small first aid kit,firestarting, and signaling consisting of :

Bic lighter w/3 ft. gauze tape wrapped around
in Pill bottle w/ 3ft duct tape wrapped around:
1.4 butterfly bandages
2.2 knuckle bandages
3.1/3 oz. Triple anti-biotic ointment
4.in mini ziploc: 8 tabs 200 mg Ibuprofen
5.in mini ziploc: 6 tabs 500 mg Tylenal
6.in mini ziploc 1" by 1" square of Ivory soap
7.4 alchohal wipes
8.small needle for popping blisters and removing splinters

Fox 40 Whistle
LED Keychain light

These supplies weigh 3.5 oz. together.

I rely on a good knowledge of wilderness survival and first aid and some creativity(knowing what items in my pack can such as extra clothing and sleeping pad, trekking poles,etc.) for use on major injuries.

remember though, NO AMOUNT OF GEAR can substitute for the knowledge it takes to use these items in the field correctly !!!

-Evan

[Jeff Antig]

The Fenix L0D might be a bit much if you don't hike in the evening. Even if you do, a headlamp might be more efficient. Many would argue that the moon light is sufficient enough for night hiking but yeah, sometimes you just need that light for a midnight meal or something.

I normally carry a mini-bic, a mini-fire steel, and 3 storm-proof matches. Even in the event of a storm, you'll probably do fine w/o the matches but they do save some time and the weight of 3 matches is negligible.

As far as compasses go, when you least expect it, you will accidentally wander off trail. Being lost is a very horrifying experience. It worsens exponentially if you are lost w/o knowledge of how to use a compass. At night. I would say always pack it and learn to use it.

I'm not going to speak for the blanket. I don't carry one, know that many will argue against me, and would like to be convinced otherwise. I really don't see the necessity for one if you are not in near, at, or below freezing temperatures.

Cord, to me, is a very universal item. I use it for many things–binding stuff together, quick-fixing stuff, drying clothes…

[J B]

Light sources — I also have a Fenix L0D and it should be plenty for the night. I'd bring a backup battery or two. As for the Photon light — at 6 g or so I would just take one anyway.

Fire sources — I'm not an expert so I'd just share this thread that you might find interesting.

Compass — don't know. I have a compass in my Suunto X9i but I don't use it as much as I should :-) I bought two tiny Suunto Clipper compasses a few days ago.

Space blanket — I'd carry one in winter. But then, I did lots of tours without one.

[Rod Lawlor]

I'd keep the Rescue flash and compass, and get rid of the rest.

You already have a spare light and fire source.

I agree that you don't need a compass, until you're lost. Then you really need it. But you're right, a crappy little one will do. As long as you know that the closest road/trail is NSE or W, and you can maintain that general direction, you will be fine.

Rescue Flash The last SAR I was on this month, the two guys said that the chopper flew over them all day on the second day, nothing on the third day, and found them on the fourth day, about ten minutes after we radioed in a campsite bearing. A signal mirror would have saved them two very hungry days.

Space Blanket. Pretty useless. I'd trade this for a Space Bag, since this makes a nice light VBL that's full body size and packs small, or else the largest, flimsiest, most colourful wheelie bin liner you can get. This will keep you MUCH warmer than trying to wrap a space blanket around you.

Spare cord. Maybe this is a keeper in the repair kit?

[Daniel Fosse]

3 lights – Unless you are doing a lot of night walking I would sick with the 2 coin cell lights. I carry 2 for the same reason. The difference between the whole light and the spare batteries is negligible.

3rd fire source – I have never had a Bic lighter fail on me. I have used them extensively having spent 15 years as a smoker. I have submerged one all day swimming. I have run over one with the car. I have used a single mini-Bic for over 6 months, lighting 15-20 cigarettes a day. A mini-Bic is plenty of fire for backpacking. Plus if it runs out for some reason, you can still spark the flint. I carry 2 mini-Bic lighters in case I loose one, not because I am afraid one will fail. They are lighter than firesteel and light 100x more times than a book of matches.

Compass – I have backpacked for many years without a compass. Of course, I don’t need to navigate where I hike. Some one gave me one of those whistle, compass, thermometer things. I broke the thermometer and compass off of it. I will carry the thermometer, an item I would have liked many times on the trail, I am a horrible judge of temperature and fail to put on extra layers until I’m shivering. I am debating the compass, it would be more for fun than function.

Rescue flash – How deep in the woods are you going? I don’t carry one. It’s better to let someone at home know your rout if you need to be found.

Space blanket – I don’t carry one. I guess it would be good on a day hike for an emergency.

Spare cord – I’m really bad about extra cord, so I can’t really criticize you for this one. I too have no idea what I carry it for.

[Nicolas Costes]

3 items to cover one need are a bit too much.
Please note that a heavy bag is a bag heavy with anxiety.
Ask yourself why you think you need this AND that AND those…

Please also check with your fellow travellers, which may have the same idea of having a emergency kit.

3 lamps is a bit much,
2 led lamps would protect you from breakage or loss. I prefer mine to use the same batteries (1 peztl MYO XP, 1 petzl tikka+).

3 way of lighting a fire is a bit much.
2 mini bics are enough (and they are sold in a blister).
If you really need firestarter, why not carry a small film box with cotton balls sprayed with WD40 spray grease, this is David Manise 's idea, ).

A compass is mandatory.
Wander off-trail in the mist or in the dark, and you can be truly lost.

a Space blanket is mandatory.
Already used 4 times:
– to protect a fellow traveller who broke his leg,
– to act as a wind-breaker at belay station while retreating
– to serve as a blanket for an unplanned bivouac
– to complement a leaky tent floor

Rescue Flash is for me optional.
a blinking Led light or survival blanket would be enough, Some say that the inside of the small metal container could be made to work as a mirror.

Extra cord to do what ?
I prefer to carry extra strong adhesive tape (not duct tape) to address blisters, cuts and minor repairs.
I used to carry a 5 feet piece of cord not to big (suitable for a emergency shoelace), but i have yet to use it.

I also carry whistle, Ibuprofen, a kind of diarrhea stopper, Dextrose, paper tissue, in a ziplock bag.
One thing, i have considered is to duct tape a loop of string to this bag to be able to attach it and avoid dropping it while climbing (almost happened)

For a long hike, I take a second pocket knife with a corkscrew !

[Eric Fredricksen]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

I think I'll probably ditch the 3rd everything & the cord (given there's tie-downs to sacrifice anyway), keep the compass until something lighter but adequate crosses my path, and take the flash and space blanket or not depending on circumstances. I feel better equipped to decide based on your feedback.

[Roger Caffin]

I cannot imagine EVER travelling without a compass. Not ever.

We always carry some rope – but around here in the sandstone country (no tracks) you are always running into small scarps. 20 m of 5 mm nylon. I won't claim you can abseil on this, but you sure can slither! In other country I might not bother.

There's a mini-Bic in the first aid kit. That kit is never left behind.

[Ethan A.]

Roger, what do you carry in your first aid kit besides the mini-bic?

[Brian UL]

One thing I carry in redundancy is fire starting materials. Matches are quick and easy, firesteels are bombproof -never run out and unaffected by weather.
lighters on the other hand can die if they get wet and you can't hold a flame with them without burning your finger. Lighters were designed to light cigarettes -nothing more. I carry a small one but I wouldn't rely on it.

[Ethan A.]

Compass – ALWAYS take it with you (and know how to use it). And carry a decent one (needn't be expensive but don't use a rinky-dink keychain model as your only compass).

Trails can become overgrown, be washed out by heavy rains or covered in fog. Mistakes can get you more than lost – you could walk into a spot that's tough to walk out of. In the White Mountains such heavy fog hit once we couldn't see nearby rock cairns and navigated almost solely by compass.

Rescue mirror – Have it our little survival kit and yes, if you need to be found it's very helpful. They're very light.

Space blanket – People may differ on this but we've used ours to keep another hiker from hypothermia and to keep us warm and dry after a bear incident resulted in my wife getting separated from her pack (with extra warm layers and rain layer inside). I think ours weighs 2.5 ounces and of course it packs very flat. A garbage bag would serve a similar function and could double as a pack liner.

Spare cord – I always carry some as well. Many uses.

I do carry a spare Photon light together with my whistle, and use a headlamp as a main light.

[Brian UL]

I think a trash bag or something that could be worn as a VB (vapor barrier) liner would be superior to a space blanket. The way I see it a space blanket is basically a half-a@# VB liner that vents like mad and cant be worn. The whole reflective heat thing I believe is pretty much garbage.
So something like a trash bag with armholes I think would add a lot more warmth- what say people?

edit: reflecting body heat I think is garbage, but space blankets will reflect intense heat very well. Like if you held it up behind a fire to reflect the heat twords you.

[Unknown abc]

I agree with Brian, the space blankets advertisements reflecting %90 of body heat back to you is complete garbage!

I stopped carrying a trash bag, even though they would be superior to space blankets as a VB.

Another thing, when hiking in an area where you have ready access to boughs and pine needles and leaves (dry) you can nix the space blanket.Making a big pile of natural material and burrowing down into it at night will keep you warmer better than any space blanket.

-Evan

[Brian UL]

"Making a big pile of natural material and burrowing down into it at night will keep you warmer better than any space blanket."

True-and you can also stuff your clothes with it!

[Unknown abc]

oh yeah, I forgot to include that, thanks, Brain.

-Evan

[John Sixbey]

I've only seen a space blanket get used once: my dad forgot to unpack his sleeping bag after the previous trip, and it had lost its loft. He didn't find out until we were on a mountain top & night was falling. He had to wrap himself in his emergency blanket to stay "warmish".

I nearly forgot. I used to use them as a tent footprint. They get tattered after a few uses and sound a little crinkly, but they're very light and pack down to nothing.

A compass is one of those things that's only useful if you have an idea of how to use it. I've only had to use one once while trail hiking, but it gets used a lot when I go off-trail. I carry a Silva Landmark because it was the lightest one I could find with a sighting mirror.

[Ethan A.]

Wouldn't you love to see the look on the face a cold hiker when you bury them in a pile of pine needles, branches or leaves, or start stuffing those down their shirt and pants? "I'm just trying to help you, I have to shove these down your pants."

Joking aside, that really works and works very well.

That said, I'd still carry some sort of very light wind/water/heat barrier, blanket or otherwise. Packs down to nothing and is very light. And we've used it when the pile of natural material would have not been convenient or possible. One useful instance would have been enough to convince me to take it again, and we've had several.

[Roger Caffin]

> Roger, what do you carry in your first aid kit besides the mini-bic?

Ah, hum, well, I had better look … It is rarely opened.

J&J standard and wide band-aids. They sit in a small plastic bag outside the main kit, because they are the item which gets used (a few times a year).
One square of paper towel (for mopping up blood etc)
Reel of 3M Micropore surgical tape 25 mm wide – UL duct tape!
10" length of Bandaid strip (cut to length bandaids)
Miniature Nalge bottles (about 1 cc) of butesan picrate (ultimate wound dressing), burn cream and antiseptic cream.
6 – 8 Panadol, 4 Panadeine Fort (aka 'aspirin')
1 Sealed scalpel blade + 1 unsealed scalpel blade
Bic lighter
2 m 0.5 mm Spectra string

All done up in a couple of plas bags so it could float for a day without getting water inside, and then in a ripstop nylon bag.

In addition – each of us carries at least one clean handkerchief each – never had to use it as a bandage but they are there.

Also in pack:
20 m 5 mm nylon kernmantel rope (this gets USED around our sandstone cliffs)
2 garbage bags big enough to line packs for a swim – also used quite often

I also carry a 'repair kit' on longer trips – equally miniaturised, equally tuned to our gear. I have repaired broken packs and damaged tents with it.

Cheers

[Daniel Fosse]

I know people love their firesteel. Keep in mind that I don’t have one. Can anyone clarify what fire will light with a firesteel which cannot be lit with a mini-bic? I think as long as you have built a proper fire and have tender a mini-Bic would be just as effective. Alcohol fuel lights easily enough. Has anyone ever had a mini-Bic fail on them? If they get wet just blow on the top and they work as good as new. Some people worry about running out of fuel but read my first post. You would have to be lost in the woods for over 4 months before you ran out of fuel on one mini-Bic. We are all used to conserving fuel, the same applies here. I have had trouble with them in extreme cold but you just put the lighter under your armpit for a few seconds and it works fine.

Now for the Ultra purest I can see carrying one book of matches. The lightest/take no more than you need option.

Firesteel is neat but is it really justifiably “better” than a lighter? I’m not trying to be contrary to anyone, I’m just looking for opinions to improve my strategy.

[cary bertoncini]

i prefer a firesteel to a lighter in normal situations – i hate the thumb dealy-whop on those bic lighters. i've taken several trips in the last couple years and only brought a firesteel, using it as my first and preferred method of firestarting.

a firesteel works when wet & can't break, so it's more bullet-proof than a lighter; in really moist situations, i've had bic lighters fail on me in the past.

if hands are cold or not functioning well, i'd definitely do better with the steel than the lighter. the one big problem i can think of is that a firesteel does require 2 functioning hands.

[Brian UL]

A firesteel is a solid. If it gets wet you just wipe it off. Its hard to break, easy to carry, and cant run out.
A lighter can die from a little water but maybe you can dry it out.
The biggest draw back is that its designed to hold a flame just long enough to light a cigarette and then your finger will burn. Its even harder to hold it at any angle other than upright.

[Daniel Fosse]

OK, I get the perks of firesteel. But seriously, a lighter will actually work just fine after being wet, it will not die.

As for burning your finger, this is all about technique. I can hold a lighter, lit, at many angles, indefinitely, without burning myself. I’ve had a lot of practice.

Perhaps I’ll get a firesteel and mess with it. Although I suspect it would be hard to light a cigar or a candle with one.

[Brian UL]

"Perhaps I’ll get a firesteel and mess with it. Although I suspect it would be hard to light a cigar or a candle with one."

Using a firesteel is an indirect method of fire lighting. The sparks are used to light tinder. The tinder is the flame that is used to light kindling and so and so on…
Its more involved and thats why matches (and lighters) where invented for everyday use.
But for survival/outdoor use the indirect method gives you a much more intimate understanding of fire building. It allows you the flexibility to carry home-made tinder thats easy to light and gives you the option of collecting wild tinder, like if your home-made runs out.
Its a skill.

[cary bertoncini]

it also works very well lighting a stove (directly) & for that use i like it better than match/lighter since the spark only has to be directed to the stove, not held to it

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