Light warm winter sleeping bag to go with clothing system

EJ, if you're considering taking on the weight of an Exped 7, you might want to consider a Stephenson Down Air Mat. They're lighter, warmer, and, IMHO, create a more cradling surface, unlike the more usual "bouncy" air mattress feel of the Exped. (Though the Exped is much better than an ordinary air mattress–in addition to providing warmth, the down in either the Stephenson or the Exped damps air movement in the mat chambers). Only downside to the Stephenson is that, though at list it's not much more expensive than the Exped, it rarely experiences the massive discounts you can sometimes find for the Exped. The Stephenson is also a little more secure in the attachment between pump sac and mat, though best of all is the Exped 9 (much, much heavier).

> I suspect what Roger meant was that the reflective blankets are not really any MORE insulating than an equivalent piece of plain plastic like a garbage bag or piece of cuben.

Yes – I was not very clear, was I? Sorry about that.
If these were all that effective as warmth layers, I am sure our tents and sleeping bags would be different.

> However, to the extent that they are usually very cheap and folded into a compact size … they are handy for emergency use, like a plastic groundsheet really.

I agree with Allison here. If you want to carry one for emergency use as a shelter/windbreak/vapour barrier that's fine, as long as you understand what it can and cannot do.

Edited to explain some more:
A 'space blanket' has almost zero thermal insulation value. But it can keep the rain off you, it can keep the wind off you, and if you are wet it can act as a vapour barrier, limiting evaporative heat loss from your body. The latter can be quite significant.
What I would not want to see is someone taking a space blanket **in place of** some decent insulation layers.

Cheers

Thanks James. The Exped Dowmat with integral pump just became available in the U.S. (just saw at REI) and I'd want that the integral pump for the convenience (and hope it comes on sale soon). Is the Stephenson only available with external pump?

I was thinking of combining an Exped Downmat 7 with a 3/4 in. torso length CCF pad (if necessary for the extra warmth and in order to have a failsafe backup if the Exped punctured) rather than using an Exped 9.

I've got to look back and check all the weights.

As side sleepers I don't think we'd be comfortable enough on just two 3/4 in. torso pads and packs at our feet. Seems like the Exped 7 and a 7-8 oz torso length pad would be a versatile solution (can use the torso length pad in summer too).

At the same time I find prolite pads too stiff when fully inflated, and not warm enough when less inflated.

I'm trying to

1) quantify to a temp rating as much as possible (knowing that U.S. sleeping bag temp ratings are subjective). Meaning, can we comfortably use a 30F bag when wearing our DAS Parkas and Micropuff Pants (with merino base layers and possibly R1 Hoody under these).

Doesn't anyone do this? It seems logical to have your clothing do double duty.

AND

2) then work to specific bag recommendations that will accomodate the clothes on us (and as the case may be bag + quilt recommendations as posted earlier).

nm

nm

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the bag suggestions, really appreciate your help.

Our packs will hold what we need – Golite Infinity 3000 cu in., but the collars extend generously and there are many good lash points. How do I know? We did +10 mile full day snowshoe trips, winter hikes and X country skiing in windy 5F to 15F in the Northeast with further 20F windchill to get our layers right and practice skills with all the same gear, minus tent, sleeping bag and sleeping pad but plus a 6.5 ounce emergency thermal bag (forget name) and 3 ounce sit pad. There’s plenty room. Our layers worked great, active and resting.

We’re not using too many layers – If you look carefully at our list, there are double items on some lines for either/or, not both items. I’ll post our full winter list shortly for feedback.

I remember reading posts and articles a long while back when we were gearing up for winter about other members doing EXACTLY what we’re trying to do – use clothing layers to take a little lighter bags, not only for getting more out of the clothing, but also for being able to use the lighter bag for shoulder seasons/higher elevation summer.

Isn’t it realistic to take a 20, 25 or 30F bag when you use the layers we have? Has anyone here every put on a warm belay parka and Micropuff or BMW Cocoon Pants over baselayers + midlayer – they are VERY WARM! And I’m certain we can find bags we can fit into without compressing the jacket/pants loft too much. Also remember this is inside a double wall tent and we can throw a warm bottle in the bags with us.

Layers are basically:

– BASE LAYERS, BOTTOM
-Ibex light merino brief
-Ibex Woolies long johns OR Ibex midweight merino long johns baselayer
– Socks (1 extra pair)

BASE LAYERS, TOP/HEAD
-Ibex Woolies L/S merino top baselayer
-Hind thin Powerstretch Balaclava (very light material, not full powerstretch) – only take when not taking R1 Hoody
-Liner gloves

MIDLAYER, TOP
-Patagonia R1 Hoody midlayer OR a Patagonia R2 Jacket Special Edition Jacket (much higher loft but lighter than current R2 without chest pocket, at 12 oz about same weight as R1 but warmer. If I take the R2 I also have to take the Hind Balaclava) ; I can combine the R1 Hoody with a light fleece vest as well.

OUTER LAYER, PANTS
-Arcteryx Gamma MX softshell pants (Powershield)

OUTER LAYER, TOP
-Patagonia Ready Mix softshell jacket OR Patagonia Houdini hooded wind jacket
-Outdoor Research hat (think it's made of Powershield, very warm) OR Cloudveil Four Shadows hat (less warm and more breathable than Outdoor Research hat)
-Winter gloves

INSULATION LAYER TOP AND BOTTOM (worn over outer layer at rest stops or in camp)
-Patagonia DAS Parka OR lighter Montbell Thermawrap Hooded Parka
-Patagonia Micropuff Pants

SLEEPING PAD
-I think we're going to go with the Exped Downmat 7 with built in pump, which I've heard people say makes their bags feel 10F warmer. Maybe take a torso size ¾ in. CCF pad with it that can’t be punctured. Still researching.

We thought of a quilt, but felt that sleeping bags would be more versatile so that our bags could be used by family or friends as well, like a nephew or a niece. Also as pointed out, a quilt alone would let in drafts, and we’re sprawlers. But lighter bags + a shared quilt was an interesting idea.

I sincerely appreciate all the great feedback. BPL has been an incredibly helpful resource and friendly community.

A 25 F or even 30 F bag shouldn't be too bad. Don't forget: a good hot dinner works wonders.

You cannot get it perfect on the first overnight. Take just a little excess (not a whole lot) and see how it goes. After that, go out again, and again …

Cheers

EJ, personally I would be looking at either a 10F or 15F bag for your wife, depending on how cold she sleeps. For you a 20F or 15F degree bag… assuming you are going to be wearing your DAS parkas and micropuff pants.

There were a few threads recently discussing using montbell inner jackets and pants inside summer sleeping bags and the general consensus seemed to be that most people would get around 10F of extra warmth by wearing them both. The DAS parka would get you more since it is a lot warmer, but I guess you need to make sure you have a bag that is plenty big enough to wear it inside.

If you have a look on the western mountaineering website you'll see that there's actually very little difference between the weights of the 20F, 15F, 10F bags. For instance the difference between the ultralite (20F) and versalite (10F) is just 3 ounces… and the versalite has a larger girth.

So if you are thinking of going the WM route (or similar) I would be trying to choose a bag based on what is going to be the most useful and comfortable. The weight savings of getting a lighter bag are not much. Better off trying to save weight by getting a montbell light alpine down jacket/parka or WM flight jacket instead of the DAS parka (but since you've got the DAS already it's probably not worth the cost!).

Anyway, the main point I wanted to make is that most of the WM bags in the range 10-20F weigh about 2 pounds and there's not a lot in it.

EDIT: Sorry didn't read your question carefully enough. If you are looking to make significant weight savings on your bag, then you are best trying to get a 25F or 30F degree bag and wearing lots of layers. You won't save much weight by opting for a 20F degree bag it seems to me.

nm

I'm a warm sleeper, but have never regretted bringing my 5° bag (a WM Antelope or Valandre La Fayette) in the Sierra Nevada in winter.

I've tried others, including a lightweight Montbell hugger bag rated at 32° at Mt. Shasta, and I ended up resorting to hand warmer packs on my abdomen and femoral arteries, even when wearing all of my layers…