suggestions for the beginner

Before answering your question… have you gotten all your other gear — or at least the major pieces such as tent, bag, pad and insulation clothing? How compact or bulky are they (meaning do you know how much pack volume you need)? Also, how heavy are your gear and how long do you expect your trips to be?

If you have your other gear pieces and you let us know, that will really help to narrow down the selection. OTOH, if you haven't really begun your purchases, then I highly recommend that you make your other gear selections first — then pick a pack that will (1) fit you well and (2) carry your particular load weight and volume well.

So why not just choose a pack that will carry a big and heavy load well — leaving some room for future needs? Because the objective is to shop for the lightest pack that fits you, has the features you want, and carries your load well — and avoid buying an unnecessarily big and heavy pack. More is not always better.

+1 to what Ben said.

My first "UL" purchase was a pack, and I subsequently realised that I wanted a smaller, lighter pack. Get your pack last!

Amen.

You can carry UL gear in a heavyweight pack…
You can't carry heavyweight gear in an UL pack.

It's hard to make the transition by buying the pack first, much easier to replace other gear piece by piece.

Get Don Ladagan's LIGHTEN UP!

GET A SCALE!!!

And – read the 101 articles on this site!

you can get a JAM2, but a regular load of "traditional" gear (sleeping bag and pad) wont fit!

This is SO true. However, if you buy a UL pack first (as I did), then you will be HIGHLY motivated to get lighter gear asap. I remember filling my old Golite Breeze (no waistbelt) to the hilt with a 4 1/2 pound tent, thermarest pad, Whisperlite stove, 2L steel pot, big sleeping bag…and breaking my back heading down the Paria in southern Utah. My shoulders hurt SO bad! And as soon as I got home, my orders were in for a Tarptent, an consister stove, a titanium pot, and a new down bag.

My point is that these guys are right- make sure you have you other gear paired down first. But if you have it down to 20-25 pounds or less, you pack idea is a good one- and it will remain a good one as your loads get lighter.

Other places to look for similar packs might be Gossamer Gear, Six Moon Designs, or Ula Equipment.

Best,
Doug

YES- get that book! And I'm not even the illustrator! ;-)

Lighten Up is the best resource for getting started, in my opinion.

Thanks for the input. I've got half the "prerequisites". I anticipate 20-25# in the end. Trips are short, ie 3 nights.

I'm looking at Tarptent's Rainbow but am tempted to get something a little lighter and hence the trekking pole question. Not sure what length I'll need.

I am stuck on the bag rating. Ben had helped on another thread with a suggestion of a 30deg with high loft jacket for the Sierras. I live in the Bay area and temps don't get into the thirties so I can't test things in the backyard. I'm guessing 30 deg bag with maybe MontBell Thermawrap, Montbell UL 90cm pad (like the idea of extra width vs. Torsolite (feel free to make other suggestions on this issue)) and CCF of ?thickness for the extreme shoulder seasons.

Dennis:

Warmth is subjective of course, but most people seem to agree that MontBell warmth ratings are accurate. For me, wearing silk long johns (basically to help keep the bag cleaner) their 30F bag does keep me warm to 30F. I try to match bag warmth to expected nighttime temps and use my Thermawrap jacket as backup — down to around 20F or so — which I believe is adequate for 3-season type hikes.

Back to packs — I don't think you can go wrong by choosing among the usual suspects. If you prefer a balance between "pretty light" and "pretty robust" — then ULA, Golite and the heavier Mountain Laurel Designs (MLD) models are worth a look. If you are gunning for the lightest (and you are careful with your gear and don't plan on serious bushwhacking) — then look at Z Packs, Fanatic Fringe, and the lighter MLD models.

To me, when it comes to ultralight frameless packs — they pretty much carry the same — the CRITICAL thing to look at is just the shoulder straps. Pick the ones with the right shape, width, anchoring angle and you'll be just fine.

Finally, IMHO, when you've narrowed down to the final 2 or 3 — feel free to order them all so you can really load up and compare. Given how wonderful it is to get a pack that truly fits — the additional postage for UL packs is pretty darn minimal. Best of luck.

Dennis, I too live in the Bay Area (well Santa Cruz Mountains) and I do two things with my sleeping bags. For Sierra trips I use my Western Mountaineering Ultralight and for my coastel hikes I use my Western Mountaineering Highlite. The temp. ranges of those two bags are as follows: The Ultralight is a 20 degree bag which suites a range of temps in the Sierra's, and my Highlite is a 45 degree bag which is fine for shoulder seasons on the coast from Point Reyes to Big Sur. With that said, degree ratings are subjective depending on many circumstances ie how you sleep hot or cold, matabilism, your pad, etc. The best sleeping bags tend to be quite more expensive and worth the investment. I consider my sleeping bag as one of my most important pieces of gear that I have. Everyone is right, I'd buy the rest of my gear first before a pack. If you do get a pack along with the gear, you can always downsize later. Most of us on here are on a quest to find the perfect piece of gear.

Since you are from the Bay Area, on January 24-25th a whole bunch of us are going to Point Reyes for an overnighter and you are more than welcome to come along and learn some tricks from us. I gained valuable knowledge from hiking with others when Ihe first started backpacking. Unfortunately, I learned everything about lightweight backpacking from myself or from this great site. No one was there to mentor me.

Dennis — don't go!!! Ken is just about the worst gear enabler!

More seriously, fondling gear "in the flesh" and doing hikes in real life are just about the best way to compare and contrast — esp. when there are different brands and models around. You should definitely take advantage. Like Ken, I too wish I had a UL mentor when starting out.

Benjamin you're sooooo right. Me as well as Jay Wilkerson would ruin him…..

I'd bring 5 stoves, 3 different water purifiers….and…..

I just know that Dennis will be spending A LOT OF MONEY after his trip with you guys. But least he'll have a good chance of buying the right stuff the first time around. And he'll be having fun. :)

Sure enough!!

You guys are too funny.

I strongly encourage you to make a gear list, with weights (using your scale!).

Below is a link to my 3-season solo list. This is a good place to begin. Nothing too fancy, but a good example of leaving extranious stuff out.

This is invaluable!

(LINK)

http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/80a5cd1800fbac69c35fad3f320f5461.pdf

(or go to my profile page)

Nice list, Mike.
It says you sleep in your Driducks coat at least sometimes. How that's going on the fabric? I just made a bivy top out of it and am concerned about long term durability – don't want to make something too disposable. Seems like a small rip or abrasion can be easily taped-over. Does it still look presentable?

Mike,
I see you use pants + shorts rather than zip-offs. Why ? Does your recommendation change when hiking with a group ?

Also, if the Jam 2 isn't big enough for "standard gear" – what lightweight pack would you recommend for a Marmot 30 degree Climashield XP or 550 down bag, 1.5×48" Thermarest pad, Hubba tent, gigapower canister stove + 1 litre pot, fleece-based but minimal 3 season clothing, and very minimal 1st aid / repair / toiletry / accessory gear ?

Finally, can you cook Mac-n-cheese and Lipton wide-noodle or rice meals on an Alchohol stove & cozy in under 15 minutes (including alchy stove warm-up, etc) ?

Thanks.

He doesn't use zip-offs because the zipper can chaif against the skin which can be extremely annoying.

My limited expieriance can't tell you what pack to use – but I am looking into buying a z-pack http://www.zpacks.com/ . He makes it in several differant sizes.

You can make macaroni and cheese on an alcohol stove with some skill and by bringing enough fuel to boil water.Simply cook macaroni, mix the cheese sauce with the appropraite amount of dehydrated milk (this step is done at home) and mix it with hot water in a ziploc, then add the macarini (strained though a bandanna or with the lid to your pot) into the ziploc. Enjoy!

Hope this helps.