Bear Can Cheating?

Hi Chris,

Most likely depends on the ranger you cross paths with and where you are. At Tyndall the ranger asked and I told her no, it didn't all fit, and she kindly explained the location of the nearby boxes to put my excess in and confessed that she had the same problem the year before when she hiked the JMT. Others seemed to be trawling for violations.

The regulations/laws specify how you must store your food in bear country, not what you must carry. Carrying a bear cannister is irrelevant if you are not using it to store all of your food.

So it's only a "loophole" in that you might be able to fool a ranger that all your food is inside the canister. But it wouldn't stop you getting fined if anyone worked out what you were doing, because it is against regulations. Not "OK"!

More importantly, "cheating" won't fool the bears either.

Beyond worrying whether or not you'll get fined for carrying food outside of the can, you also have to think about what you're going to do with that extra food. Even if you think the authorities are overzealous requiring a can over a well-placed bear bag or an Ursack, surely the problem of bears getting your food (and beginning to view hikers like you as meal-tickets) is one that you recognize. That means you would still have to use one of those methods to protect the rest of your food. Compared to the risk of getting a fine plus the hassle of placing two food protection system, I'd go with a larger can.

RooooooOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAhhhhh!!!!!

Summertime, you need it more than a tent.

The Bare Boxer is, essentially, a small version of the Garcia Canister, with a redesigned lid. I have a Garcia and love the way it's shape slides easily into my pack. However, due to the shape of its lid, it's difficult to get stuff into and out of. I also have two Bearikades, the Weekender and the old original, which is 2 1/2" longer. The Bearikades are easy to load to the max and are the ones I always carry.

If it were me, I'd get the container that met my needs most adequately. If I had a (unusual) trip where more than the first day's food didn't fit in the canister, I'd probably just hang it appropriately.

Does that meet the letter of the law? No. Do I understand that rewarding bears is very bad and must not happen? Yes.

I'm far more concerned with the latter than the former but that's a personal decision we all have to make.

It's not a "personal decision". It's the rules – just follow them, for everyone's sake.

As long as the food is stored in an approved container when it's not on your person, you're fine. If you're using a BearBoxer because you can fit some of your food in it at night and know you'll be able to put the rest of it in a locker, then no worries.

If you're using the BearBoxer to say you're carrying a canister but actually plan hang or leave out food at night, you're breaking the rules and putting bears and other backpackers at risk.

I used the Bearikade weekender on a JMT thru-hike in 2005. It is light, easy to pack and fits in many, though not all, backpacks. I painted a fluorescent orange stripe around the circumference of mine to make it easier to find. I sold it after my hike and bought the Ursack. Maybe not the smartest sale now that Ursack is not allowed. Even though the Bearikade is expensive, it is a very high quality unit and I would purchase one again.

There used to be a post on the net with excellent ideas on packing a Bear can. The author claimed he could fit 20+ days of food in it. I don't have the URL, but it may still be around somewhere. Your choice of food and how you cook play into your ability to fit your food in the can.

I had rangers ask about my can but never made me show them. Not sleeping where you cook, keeping things clean and opening and closing the can quickly kept me from any bear encounters or problems. Get the Expedition model if you need even more room.

I just returned from a JMT hike this summer. We stayed at all the classic bad bear camps. We did not have ONE bear encounter the entire trip. 20 years ago you would have had to defend your food almost every night. Thanks to compliance by backpackers, the bears are being saved and IMO the canister program has proved to be successful.

Sure, you might be able to get away without storing your food in a canister, but that is thanks to those who DO store their food properly.

Get the Bearvault 450, get a good nights sleep, and know you are doing the right thing. It also makes a great stool in camp.

Brian what backpack did your canister fit inside?

From what I've read, if they were doing the right thing, the Ursack would be approved.

I use the Bearikade Expedition at 37oz. and 900ci. It was a bit pricey at the time but it has payed for it self over the years instead of renting the heavier and only 600ci capacity that the parks provide. The Expedition is longer then the average bear canister which makes it a excellent camp chair too.

Always bring your bear canister in Yosemite!!!!!

I cannot sit on my cannister because it makes my butt hurt.

I have the Bearboxer and love it for overnighters where cannisters are required. Longer trips then the Bearvault Weekender. If no requirements then my Ursack.

Folks never skimp on bear prevention with your food. I rarely see bears but I always have my food protected.

It is a personal decision. You break the rules, you deal with the consequences. A ticket is different than a fed bear.

It's the same as if you CHOOSE to speed in your car. What the rule is trying to prevent is accidents and killing a person. If you get caught speeding you get a ticket regardless of if you actually hurt someone.

> It is a personal decision. You break the rules, you deal with the consequences.

Unfortunately, as with speeding, you may not be the only one who has to deal with the consequences.

As everyone has pointed out, if your food is not properly stored you are risking others' safety and bears' lives. For the sake of what… a few ounces?

Dave Neumann, was this the article? It was linked to on the PCTA website. Anyway, it's a good article IMHO.
http://www.pcta.org/planning/before_trip/health/canistercare.doc

I am not a lover of bear canisters, but I will always use one where required. Where not required (most of the places I hike), I use an Ursack with OP sack liner. Hanging is not for me. I am a lousy thrower–couldn't hit the side of a barn if I were inside it. The jerky motion needed for throwing starts up arthritis in my shoulders. That's especially true since it takes a dozen or more attempts!

Thanks for the feedback!
To clarify, I am very careful with how I treat food storage in bear country and try to do the right things to prevent bear incidents. I definitely don't want my actions to result in a dead bear. I didn't want to make myself look like I was one of those people that leave their food sitting out or sleeps with their food.
That being said, I wish there was a better bear can (that was approved). My experiences are limited to the rental Garcia's so maybe I'll like the BearVault or Bearikade better. If I knew I was never going to be in the areas with mandatory can rules I'd get the Ursak but I am absolutely in love with the Sequoia backcountry so I will go for the bigger, more responsible canisters.
Again, thanks for the input.

Well is a ranger going to search your pack? Do they even have the right to?
Do I have to open up my bear canister every time I want to eat a cliff bar?

I've know of rangers in Sequoia/Kings Canyon who wanted to "see" your canister.

Jesse:
A ranger can't search your pack unless they have probable cause you are breaking the law, but they can make you produce a proper food storage device at will if you are in a designated area.

You don't have to have all your food in a bear canister if you are in possession of the extra food at all times. Example. You start a hike in the morning, that days lunch, dinner and snacks can be outside a canister.

John:
I used a ULA Circuit

Brian is correct. You can have your days food ie lunch snacks out of the cannister. The permits issued in SEKI even give you a pamplet stating how to pack your cannister and they allow you to do that. As for showing your cannister, I was even asked at a trailhead in Inyo Natl. Forest by a ranger on the east side of the Sierra's if I had a cannister, to which I replied, I did and asked if he would like to see it. I answered very politely and he said that it was ok. Most of the time, the rangers see our smaller packs and wonder if we do have one. I have no problems pulling it out to show them if they want.

Any inside scoops on the Ursack for this year? Since it sounds like a lawsuit is pending, can we expect conditional approval in 2017?

The two times I have been asked whether or not I was carrying a canister they did not want to see it. I just knocked on the pack and that was enough. One was in Yosemite the other in Sequoia.

On short trips I always share a canister with my son or a hiking partner. They do take a second look when only one has a canister. Why take 2 when 1 will do?

We always take out the food we will be eating on the trail during the day and keep our packs close at hand. I don't take out dinner since I will usually be setting up camp at that time and see no advantage to having it out during the day.

I do not understand the whole discussion of lying to the ranger. The only issue I see with a ranger actually wanting to see your bear can is whatever inconvenience there is for whatever unpacking is needed to satisfy the ranger.

If you were doing the right thing to begin with, which for the sake of both bears and other humans you should be, there would be nothing to lie about.

So is the issue that someone is already engaging in unethical behavior, and what to do when encountering a vigilant ranger?

Yuck!

— MV

(P.S. — sorry if that sounds judgmental.)