WINTER EXPEDITION LIST (long and cold)

– I have 3 questions:

1/ how does it interact with a stove windshield (do you still need one ?)

– – – – We still use a wind-screen yes. The "lamp shade" works awesome with the stove. It's easy.

2/ what is the purpose of the lampshade parka ? (apart from showing off how many parkas you are carrying around ;-))

– – – – – It makes melting snow MUCH easier and quicker. Saving fuel weight, and that easily makes up for the weight of the shade itself.

3/ can't you really convince Roger to conduct yet another scientific investigation of the efficiency of the lampshade for snowmelting and boiling water

– – – – – No scientific data, only anecdotal. But, it makes melting snow MUCH faster (having melted a LOT of snow).

"No scientific data, only anecdotal."
until now…
https://rendezvous.nols.edu/content/view/1900/803/

Thanks for sharing this, Jon. Anyone know whether there would there be any reason to consider a lampshade type setup w/ an alcohol stove?

James

Mike,

The Black Ice Hooded Fleece Jacket looks like something similar to what you mentioned above.

http://www.blueiceclothing.com/products/jackets/blackicejacket.html

I don't have any experience with this company, Blue Ice Clothing, but it looks like a small manufacturer worthy of a look. They also make a one piece fleece "Hot Suit."

http://www.blueiceclothing.com/products/pants/hotsuit.html

James

James asked:

"Anyone know whether there would there be any reason to consider a lampshade type setup w/ an alcohol stove?"

THe CALDERA CONE is a "lampshade" set up for an alcohol stove. It works great!

Mike, regarding your list,

have you considered replacing the Pursuit pack with a Black Diamond Alias?

I happen to have both, and I find that although the Pursuit is rated at 50L vs the Alias 30L, I seem to be able to cram the same items in both. Weight is about the same, however the Alias' toplid doesn't extend.

The pouch in the Alias has sleeves for a probe and a shovel handle, and no zipper, which seems to be easier to manage – the backe edge of the toplid cinches down to cover, the buckles can simply be loosened to access the pouch.

The Persuit is a nice pack. I could easily get away with a smaller pack, but I am teaching in the mountains with this set-up (for NOLS) and I need to be able to access gear fast on a day trip.

I've cut a lot off the persuit, and it has a mice hip belt (important for pulling the sled).

> Anyone know whether there would there be any reason to consider a lampshade type setup w/ an alcohol stove?

I think it might be useful if the alky is not very high power. It might minimise the rate of heat loss, especially in cold weather and with a minimal windshield.

I found (measured) that with any ordinary canister stove the heating rate was fast enough that the lampshade would have minimal effect, especially with a good windshield around the pot. The hot air coming up past the sides of the pot inside the windshield had the same insulating effect as the lampshade. Yes, this is like the CC.

Cheers

THe lamp shade is really great for melting lots of snow for lots of water , like in winter or on an alaskan glacier.

The Caldera Cone solves ths same thing with alcohol in mind. I don't have any specs, but I am quite certain that much less fuel is used to heat the same amount of water. Alas – I don't know what "much" works out to be.

Any word on the follow-up list that was mentioned in the OP?

I am considering taking the NOLS backcountry skiing course in spring 2010. My lower back isn't in the best of shape (one of my reasons for going UL), so I would be very interested in lowering my backpack weight for the course without sacrificing safety.

Thanks…

Mike,

First, thank you for this list. Your experience + Richard and Roger's data have really been a huge help in hammering out my winter gear closet.

You said you bring lots of glove liners of various weights. I discovered last winter that as you said, there is no magic glove system, and I had cold, wet hands for my two trips. This winter, I was thinking of 3-4 pairs of thin merino liners to swap out, a pair of MLD Event rain mitts, and a MYOG pair of VB mitts as the core of my handwear, supplemented by different weights of fleece mid-layers depending on the temps expected(OR PL 400 weights, midweight powerstretch gloves, OR snowline mitts, and so on) What are the weights of the liner gloves you bring? I had 50wt power stretch last winter that I couldn't get dry (over 24 hrs)using your system, which is why I'm leaning to 3-4 pairs of thin merino this year.

Thanks to you and/or anyone else who can advise me.

I certainly don't have any experience with any trips that are long and cold (I live in the southeast), but I will share some glove liners that I really like from a unlikely source, Lands End. My parents actually got them for me for use around town, but they were so light, they became my favorite backpacking glove (replacing my Mountain Hardwear Powerstretch gloves which BTW are also great). They are the Lands End Thermacheck 100 Fleece Gloves (100wt fleece) and mine weigh exactly 1oz (the MH Powerstretch gloves weigh 1.4oz)

How many liners?

All I carry is:
1 pr liner gloves, about 100 wt, typically a stretch synthetic, never merino (too weak to survive)
1 pr heavy synthetic fleece mitts, about 300 wt
1 pr GTX overmitts, long

If the weather is fine I just have the liner gloves on, and they dry fairly fast. They also block the sun!
If the conditions are a bit damp I put the GTX overmitts on as well, and the liners dry OK.
If the weather is *bad* I put the fleece mitts on over the liners and the GTX overmitts on over the lot.

Yes, things can get damp. If you keep your arms warm so warm blood is flowing to your hands, things will be OK.

Cheers

As a former member of an army mountain/alpine warfare unit, I have to say, that without using a tent, and for extended periods without a warming shelter, your clothing list seems just about right. Certainly a lot of experience and thought was put into it.

"I am considering taking the NOLS backcountry skiing course in spring 2010. My lower back isn't in the best of shape (one of my reasons for going UL), so I would be very interested in lowering my backpack weight for the course without sacrificing safety."

Every student on a NOLS ski course is issued a sled…this helps quite a bit with packweight. I too live with lower back pain and have successfully worked NOLS winter courses by maximizing the size of my sled and minimizing the size of my pack. As a student, you could get away with a 35 liter pack with a minimal belt (leaves room for the sled belt). All you'll need to fit is a puffy parka, windshirt, thermos (I'm impressed by Mike's approach but personally won't leave the barn without 2 1-liter Stanleys), extra gloves, avy gear, bottom layer, spare hats, toiletries and lunch and maybe a 1/2 pad strapped to the back. I hope this helps.