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Questions for Ye Rainbow / DR Users


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  • #1232445
    EndoftheTrail
    BPL Member

    @ben2world-2

    Just out of morbid curiosity…

    1. How often do you set up your tarptent Rainbow or Double Rainbow in 'freestanding' mode? Always? Sometimes? Rarely? Never?

    2. And how often do you deploy your vestibule in 'awning' mode using your trekking poles?

    #1462562
    Tony Wong
    BPL Member

    @valshar

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    Ben,

    My friend, Jeff, has a double rainbow and he has only set it up once as a freestanding tent.

    My observation is that the hiking poles need to be longer, three section vs. the two section poles he was using.

    The longer hiking pole will provide more tension.

    Jeff ended up using stakes to give him the tension that he needed so that the bathtub floor and the corners were taut.

    -Tony

    #1462564
    Bob Bankhead
    BPL Member

    @wandering_bob

    Locale: Oregon, USA

    I have the Double Rainbow

    Discounting set-ups "for training and demonstration purposes"….

    Free-standing mode: Never – for 2 reasons:

    (1) an unstaked free-standing tent can easily become a tumbleweed in the wind, and (2) the tension induced tends to bend the lower end of my trekking poles which I don't like. The Rainbow, being narrower than the Dble Rainbow, doesn't suffer from this as much. That said, I don't think I'd risk trying this with carbon fiber poles since any stress induced would be perpendicular to the axis of the fibers – the weakest point.

    Henry sells trekking pole extensions to facilitate free-standing set-up. You don't need to extend your poles as fully. I have a set; I'd consider them a wise addition for the Double RB, not really needed for the Rainbow. YMMV.

    2) Porches: Once, in Yosemite, but the expected rain didn't come. Despite the fact that it makes us duck to enter and exit the tent, we like having this capability. One day, we'll really need it…..like in the rainy North Cascades of northern WA state.

    #1462569
    John Carter
    Member

    @jcarter1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Ben,

    I don't have a Rainbow, but one is in the mail. I don't think I will ever use my Rainbow solely in freestanding mode, but I'm glad I will have the option in case the ground is especially sandy or rocky. In other words, if I'm not confident that my corner stakes will hold, I'll probably use the poles as backup. But never by themselves. Granted, there are other ways to keep a stake pegged, but it's one more tool I have to use that adds almost no weight, and it will keep the tent from collapsing while I get out to reposition the stake.

    #1462578
    Michael Davis
    Member

    @mad777

    Locale: South Florida

    I set my Rainbow up in freestanding mode when I seamed sealed it, never since. I do believe it's a nice idea to have the option though.

    As long as I am not camping on a solid rock slab or a tent platform, I will use stakes. But, the "just in case" factor simply shows Henry Shires ability to think outside the box!

    Also, I don't use trekking poles unless hiking in the mountains, so one more reason to have options.

    As to the porches, I always set them up unless there is wind blown rain. Without trekking poles, I find sticks or tie off to a convenient tree.

    #1462586
    Harlan Bruce
    Member

    @gbruce

    Locale: DFW MetroPlex

    Once after a really stressful, tiring day, I set mine up freestanding on what was a really rocky, last resort site. Just too tired to pound in the pegs into that hard place. It was stormy that night and really windy and so I piled pretty heavy rocks along the lengths of my poles. It stayed in place handily. I did not even stake out the sides/vestibule.

    Whether this was really easier or not is a different question, but I was extremely done for the day at the time.

    OTOH, I have always set it up with stakes otherwise.

    #1462603
    Justin Marney
    BPL Member

    @gotascii

    Locale: Shenandoah

    I have a question for DR users…figure this would be a good thread to ask in. Can someone who uses the extra guyline loops 1/2 way up the beak (http://synack.sixbit.org/images/ttdoublerainbow5.jpg) explain to me how that all works? Close up pictures would really help. Mainly I'm not exactly sure how to attach the line the runs from the top loop to the loop at along the edge of the beak. Along with that, I'd be interested in hearing any other extra guyline configurations people are using. Thanks!

    #1462631
    Edwin Morse
    Member

    @slosteppin

    Answering the original questions:
    1. How often do you set up your tarptent Rainbow or Double Rainbow in 'freestanding' mode? Always? Sometimes? Rarely? Never?

    2. And how often do you deploy your vestibule in 'awning' mode using your trekking poles?

    I have had the Double Rainbow for 2 years. I never have set it up free standing. I don't especially like free standing tents and I prefer the taut setup with stakes.

    I nearly always set both doors as awnings. I can usually tie one and often both sides to trees or bushes. I have my Hiking Stix if I need them.

    Slosteppin

    #1462662
    Pamela Wyant
    Member

    @riverrunner

    1. How often do you set up your tarptent Rainbow or Double Rainbow in 'freestanding' mode? Always? Sometimes? Rarely? Never?

    Rarely, bordering on never. If I want to set it up on the back deck to dry if I haven't had time to thoroughly dry it the last day of a trip I set it up freestanding. It's nice to have the option in the case of rocky soil.

    2. And how often do you deploy your vestibule in 'awning' mode using your trekking poles?

    Almost always. Which is also one reason why #1 is 'almost never' – my trekking poles are in use on the awnings.

    #1462666
    Ashley Brown
    Member

    @ashleyb

    Another quick question for double rainbow users…

    How high above the ground do the beaks of the vestibule sit when they are closed? In many of the pics I've seen it looks like the bottom of the vestibule might be anything up to a foot above the ground… not great in windy conditions. Is this the case?

    #1462677
    Fred eric
    BPL Member

    @fre49

    Locale: France, vallée de la Loire

    1- never,
    2- if its not raining and not too windy

    3- its usualy a bit less than one foot and never had rain entering that way

    #1462685
    Steven Evans
    BPL Member

    @steve_evans

    Locale: Canada

    Ben, having gone directly from a heavy double wall tent to the DR, my purchase was based on its capability of being set up freestanding (along with it's light weight of course). I was under the impression that it would make it easier to set up on tough ground (ie. rock). I have since sold the DR but I never once set it up in that mode aside from when I received it the first day.

    Regarding the porch setup, I don't even know if mine had that option, and if it did, I didn't use it.

    Height of sides would be in the 6-8 inch range. I found it tough to pitch to the ground as I believe the cut of the tent leaves it floppy if pinned that low. I didn't put alot of time into it, so i could be wrong.

    Interesting that no one really uses the FS option…

    #1462737
    Lynn Tramper
    Member

    @retropump

    Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna

    One of the first things I did when I got our DR was to cut off all the "stuff" needed to use it in free-standing mode. Shaved a good amount of weight and got rid of a tangled mess.

    Second thing I did was extend the porches. We almost always use the porches, and someone once slept under the (extended) porch in a bivy bag and stayed dry.

    In seriously windy weather, we unzip the windward vestibule and cross-stake the ends (so they overlap eachother). This brings the vestibule all the way down to the ground, and also makes a tighter and very wind worthy pitch. If pitched as per the instructions the vestibule is a bit floppy in the wind, and lets too much wind into the tent IMHO. I think these could be redesigned for a tighter pitch.

    #1462851
    Ashley Brown
    Member

    @ashleyb

    Thanks guys.

    From the above responses, and everything I've heard people mention previously, it seems hardly anyone uses their double rainbow in free-standing mode and very few people would miss it.

    On the other hand, quite a few people comment that the double rainbow is "a bit" narrow for 2, and could do with a couple of extra inches. One of the reasons the double rainbow can't be wider though is the fact that it would be too wide to be supported by trekking poles in free-standing mode! It seems to me that many more people would appreciate the width than the free-standing ability.

    The beak height is another slightly curious feature. No doubt it is designed for optimal flow of air to prevent too much condensation. However… when it's really windy there is plenty of air circulating and you usually want to "batten down the hatches" and stop the wind whistling right through. It sounds like Alison's solution of overlapping the wings so that the vestibule almost reaches the ground might be the best solution. But obviously this destroys your vestibule space and I suspect makes getting into and out of the tent a little challenging. Wouldn't an extra piece of roll-down fabric (a storm flap) be a good addition to the tent. I guess it wouldn't be too difficult to add as a MYOG project. If I end up getting a DR I might give it a go. I'm a bit unsure about the width of the tent though… the pics I've seen make it look like it might be a bit too cosy, especially with walls that slope inwards.

    #1462929
    Lynn Tramper
    Member

    @retropump

    Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna

    We 'solved' the width problem by adding a couple of tie-outs to the sides of the floor. We stake these with titanium skewers to essentially use the whole width of the floor material across the centre. The sloping walls haven't posed a problem for us as they are merely netting and you don't really notice them that much (in other words since it netting it doesn't collect condensation, therefore if you brush against it it's not an issue). Also, by staking out the floor sides, you also pull the netting walls out further.

    We have only ever had to cross stake the vestibule wings on one side of the tent (the windward). You lose a bit of vestibule space (but not all), and you still have the other vestibule to get in and out of the tent.

    On one particulalry windy, wet and cold night we had the tent 'battened' down on the windward side with the other vestibule fully open (with extended rainfly and person number three sleeping under it). In spite of the wind, this configuration worked so well that we had condensation on the inside of the tent!

    #1462932
    EndoftheTrail
    BPL Member

    @ben2world-2

    Allison:

    Have you watched the video showing a Rainbow (or is it DR?) at the Alps — practically flattened by winds (but bouncing back smartly each time)? In that video, the user had also staked the vestibule corners to the ground — instead of using cords. I remember Henry commenting that was the wrong way to do it. You may want to do a search and read up on it (I can't remember the reasons Henry provided).

    #1462938
    Pamela Wyant
    Member

    @riverrunner

    Ben,

    The Double Rainbow was redesigned after the video was made, in part due to it and due to my experience in testing for BackpackGearTest.org where a similar thing happened and damaged the long pole. The zippers were added after the video, as well as grommets so trekking poles can be used for support in high winds, and extra tie out points placed on the arch.

    Still, it really isn't intended for high wind.

    Also, a friend and I have used the Double Rainbow together and we found it very comfortable for two, a lot more so than some other tents. If necessary you can 'expand' the interior space by pushing your pads out onto the mesh.

    When I set mine up, there is usually about a 6" gap between the bottom of the vestibule 'beak' and the ground. I just make sure I carry a warm enough bag for the anticipated conditions. I really hate condensation – I'll go for breezy over damp anytime, since I feel a lot colder when damp.

    Pam

    #1462943
    Lynn Tramper
    Member

    @retropump

    Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna

    Yeah, Ben, I watched the video and read Henry's comments, but when we got hit by an unexpected gale it became clear that Henry was probably just talking from a theoretical design point of view rather than real-world experience. We also had our ridgeline flattened (and fortunatley bounce back). After that, Henry added the strut grommets and vestibule zippers to our tent and we haven't had a problem since, as long as we cross-stake in high winds. Still worth remebering this tent was not intended to be used in gale force winds!!!

    #1462945
    EndoftheTrail
    BPL Member

    @ben2world-2

    "The zippers were added after the video, as well as grommets so trekking poles can be used for support in high winds"

    Can you elaborate more — or better yet — do you (or anyone else) have a photo of this redesign in action? I'm curious how the poles are deployed. Thanks.

    #1462948
    John Carter
    Member

    @jcarter1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    I too am curious how you cross-stake the awning with the zipper design. Do you simply leave the zipper partially open?

    To the above comment about adding extra fabric to seal to the ground, I would first consider the pertex double bivy sold on this site before I would consider adding perimeter flaps or asking Henry to increase the length. Add up the weight of the perimiter, plus all the extra stakes you'd need to keep the flaps in place well enough to truly block wind. It would probably still be a little lighter than the double bivy, but it would be a much more complicated setup and you'd have condensation problems. The double bivy would block the wind as well as condensation.

    #1462950
    Pamela Wyant
    Member

    @riverrunner

    Ben,

    You can see my report here:

    http://tinyurl.com/5652mf

    There is a photo showing the grommet with the caption underneath saying "Center trekking pole attachment", which I now can't figure out why I used that caption as it is not in the center of the tent. There is one at the apex on each side, underneath the eyebrow vent. It is designed so the pole does not extend through the vent. Very clever fix I thought.

    We had actually started testing the first version of the DR and after I experienced the problem in the high wind, Henry halted the test, improved the design, and shipped us new models to test.

    Pam

    #1462956
    EndoftheTrail
    BPL Member

    @ben2world-2

    Pam:

    Thanks. A picture says a thousand words!

    Western West Virginia, eh? I've never been to W. Vriginia — hope to visit one day. Almost heaven, per J. Denver. :)

    #1462968
    Lynn Tramper
    Member

    @retropump

    Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna

    >I too am curious how you cross-stake the awning with the zipper design. Do you simply leave the zipper partially open?

    We leave the zipper fully open. The overlap of fabric is plenty to keep out wind and rain.

    Although we also carry bivies to protect from wind, to me the main reason for cross staking the upwind vestibule is to stabilise the tent, ie keep it from ripping, collapsing, or blowing away. If you don't stake it down securely the vestibules tend to flap a lot, putting undo stress on the tent.

    #1463015
    Pamela Wyant
    Member

    @riverrunner

    "Thanks. A picture says a thousand words!

    Western West Virginia, eh? I've never been to W. Virginia — hope to visit one day. Almost heaven, per J. Denver. :)"

    You're welcome.

    I agree it's almost heaven, but mainly the eastern part of the state where most of the backpackable trails are located. Unfortately that usually requires a 4-5 hour drive for me.

    Oh well, could be worse. I do love being located in a rural area where I can walk out the door for a day hike and once I walk past 3 homes, not see another house for a couple of miles.

    #1500597
    Travis Leanna
    BPL Member

    @t-l

    Locale: Wisconsin

    I know this thread is a bit old, but has anyone experienced a difference in the pitch/shape/height/angles of the canopy when it is in freestanding mode versus staked down?

    I think when its in freestanding mode, that setup holds the arch pole at a different curve (higher, more pronounced) than when its staked down (lower, squattier).

    Thanks!

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