Starting Over

Many factors are involved in your decisions such as, but not restricted to: what is your experience level on the trail, how much money do you want to spend, and what is your comfort level?

The first thing that stands out in your list is the tent. If you are planning on solo ventures you might look into a single walled tent or a TarpTent. That would chop off 7 pounds or more.

Rather than change everything at once, which might challenge both your physical and mental comfort, you might try just the one thing first. Also, have a look at the miscellaneous items you take hiking with you and decide which ones you actually use and leave the "I might have use for this" items at home. If you're comfortable with the new package, then decide in which area you might work on next.

Probably the last thing you should change right now is your pack. Use whatever you have until the weight and volume are reduced, then choose a pack designed for your finalized gear.

Good luck, and make the choosing fun. We've all been through this at one time or another.

First of all nothing to laugh at, you made reasonable choices when it comes to cost and reliable name brands. But now the fun starts. I haven't looked at the thread you linked yet so this may be redundant.Gossamer Gear and Tarptent are your friends. Their gear is ul, user friendly, and you can contactthe owners of both companies to get beta and tips on
their products. Try that with TNF. If you want to skip the mummy bag and go for the hoodless quilt option try an insulated down or syth parka as part of your sleep system. A hood is so vital as a the mercury drops. Montbell and bmw (on this site) make nice ones.A Balclava (ski mask) is nice too.
PS Do you got ul shoes yet? imo thats one of the most important steps.Get good shoes leave the crocs at home.Gotta go I'll write more later.

Oh yea one more, I wouldn't try to sell any of you old gear on this site. Trust me on this one buddy.

If you wanna sell your gear, eBay is a much better forum than BPL…

But, there is nothing "wrong" with your gear, especially if you do any kind of car-camping. If you do long road trips, you will save a lot of money in motel bills. Plus – You are set up well if you plan on going to Denali in alaska.

Question:
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What is your personal "goal" with this stuff? Do you wanna hike the PCT or anything like that? Do you wanna really be bold (like, sub-5 pound base weight)? Do you wanna be a little more comfortable on the trail while hiking? Answer this first.

One big question:
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Do you have a digital scale yet? If not, GET ONE! If you are at all serious about truly dealing with the issues involved in light-weight camping – this is mandatory.

– also –

Here's a really good "intro" gear list from the summer NOLS lightweight courses. A lot of work went into this list to make it helpful to the first time user…

LINK:
http://www.nols.edu/courses/pdf/rockymtn/lfb_lfb4_el.pdf

I think everyone who does this is in a constant state of starting over. No matter what you have, you are always trying to improve your gear, make it more efficient, multi-use, or just lighter. Gossamer Gear sells a really good DVD about lightening up, although they are a little more extreme than I'm comfortable with.

Trust me on this one–replace it after you replace everything else. That bag is probably way warner than the ultralight bags people use….and comfy too. (I have a similar one, and I can't ditch it, event hough it weighs near 3 lbs.)

Also, BigAgnes Clearview pads are CHEAP, light, and far more comfortable than Thermarest. You do, though, have to have an insulation layer (Gossamer Gear sells very light insulating pads) in addition to them or you'll freeze your butt off, pack-mule grade sleeping bag or not.

>If you wanna sell your gear, eBay is a much better forum than BPL.

Is this because of higher 'traffic' at eBay, or is there something dodgy with selling on BPL???

No one at this forum will buy heavy gear. That's all.

They love Mountain Hardwear and TNF on eBay. You'll do better there, if you sell. There are some people that will buy heavy gear on here. Some of us do look for car camping stuff, occasionally. Just don't post a want-to-buy for heavy stuff on here, or everyone will try to unload their old stuff onto you at ridiculous, near-retail prices. ;-)

Nick:

Before you buy any new gear, plan some backcountry trips you want to go on. Answer the questions where, when, how long, and how far. Use the answers to those questions to guide your gear choices. The NOLS list Mike C references is a great resource. There are many lists on this site to help also. Don't be afraid to do things differently than you might be used to.

Remember that there will always be lighter gear out there, but in the end, it's all about moving lightly through the backcountry.

Lastly, eBay is your friend in the process of lightening your load…

You guys are awesome :)

I should probably answer Mike's question first:
"What is your personal "goal" with this stuff? Do you wanna hike the PCT or anything like that? Do you wanna really be bold (like, sub-5 pound base weight)? Do you wanna be a little more comfortable on the trail while hiking?"

Well, I started off exploring the strange corners of suburbia, following local rivers for hours until they dead ended into a massive storm drain, and often crawling through that storm drain until it became too freaky. Then I moved onto car camping at the state parks throughout Ohio. At first this was nice but I quickly became turned off because it was too civilized for me (electric camp sites, bath house, a check-in fee!). When I want to spend time with nature, I want to be the only person around for miles and, preferably, make my own path through the woods.

So I started learning about such people as Dick Proenneke (http://www.aloneinthewilderness.com/), Eustace Conway (http://www.turtleislandpreserve.com/index.php), and really enjoy Les Stroud's show (http://www.survivorman.ca/). These people, and learning about lightweight backpacking, have really inspired me.

I'm now at the point where I want to spend a couple days in the wilderness with minimal, reliable gear and possibly a partner (I'll probably need a two person shelter then?) and to be able to feel like my life is truly in my own hands. My next planned adventure is a backyard campout with just my sleeping bag and, hopefully, a snow shelter so that I can experience what it's like sleeping with minimal equipment in the cold (plus I love winter time).

Our local park system (http://loraincountymetroparks.com/index.html) has a "backpacking basics" program happening until the spring. I've been participating in the program and hope to attend the 1-2 day backpacking trip at the end of the course (destination TBA). So right now I am rethinking the gear I already have so that I can have a lightweight, solid gear inventory in preparation for this trip and beyond.

So, that's where I am at right now and where I want to be in the near future. You can probably make gear recommendations just based on what I've said so far.

As for gear:

Tent: I will look into Gossamer Gear and Tarptent brands. I will probably need a shelter that can withstand a wide range of conditions (from winter to summer) and, since I will probably be with a partner, hold two people comfortably.

Sleeping Bag: William, thanks for the advice. I'm curious if I would feel more comfortable using a quilt because of my sleeping position (see my first post). I know little about them though so I need to do some research.

Boots/Shoes: Rick, you asked if I have UL shoes yet. Probably not. I have been using my Doc Martin steel toe leather boots (feeling sick yet?) up to this point. They're probably the farthest thing from lightweight and my legs let me know that after I've been hiking for hours nonstop. They're good boots and I've had them for years but I have a feeling I will need to purchase a healthier alternative if I plan to be in the middle of nowhere for days.

Scale: Mike, I'm on my way to Wal-mart (sick feeling) to buy one. Brand recommendations?

I have been looking over that NOLS gear check-list for a few days now. I wish I had documentation like this in the beginning!

Selling My Gear:

I didn't think you guys would want it anyway, haha. Thanks for the advice on using Ebay. I might even consider CraigsList also. Based on the description of my gear in the first post, what do you think is a reasonable asking price for each item? I'm not saying I'm going to sell it all tomorrow, just wanting to get a game plan together.

Thanks so much for the support guys (and gals),

Nick

recommended SCALES
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Two excellent scales listed below. Any Office MAx or Staples will have what'cha need…

(a)
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/summit_digital_scale.html

(b)
http://www.officemax.com/omax/catalog/sku.jsp?skuId=20073778&searchString=postal+scale&productId=ARS20125

I just posted two different lists, just for newer enthusiasts (like you!).

My standard 3-season LIST:
______________________
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=16986&skip_to_post=128721#128721

A "pretty good" 3-season LIST:
______________________
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=16992&skip_to_post=128752#128752

Compare and contrast these two lists at the links noted above. The "standard" list comes in a little bit lower in weight, but it requires a little extra dedication by the user (skill and specilized gear).

If you can find a replacement for your tent, you can still enjoy tramping around and figuring out what you like and don't like with the other gear you listed. Look for a good deal on something like a used Tarptent Rainbow, I'm sure you could cover it by unloading that heavy as a sledgehammer tent. :-)

Hi Nick, I purchased a digital Chefmate scale from walmart for around $30. It works great.

I have found that knowledge is king with lightweight backpacking. The more you know about gear, techniques and especially yourself the more you will lower your weight and increase your enjoyment in the woods. To do that I recommend….

1 – Buying and reading Lighten Up, it is short, funny, and contains 90% of what is needed from the big boys (Lightweight Backpacking and Camping & Beyond Backpacking)

2 – Get a digital scale, sounds like this one is happening

3 – Make a list of items needed and what you currently have to fill each item with its weight, add it up.

Now you will know exactly where you stand.

I'd also recommend you look at this as a journey and not something you will do in one step. I.e. moving right to a sub 5 pound base weight without picking up skills will probably end in frustration. I would set an objective for each trip and take one step at a time.

I agree with William that your bag can wait. I also agree that your tent is the starting place. The decision you and your partner need to make first is are you ok with a tarp? A tarp is generally more functional, less costly, and fair lighter then any tent option. So why do most people in the woods use tents? I think it is lack of knowledge and fear. Now if you aren't ready for this then yes get a tarptent, but realize this will also mean your pack is probably going to be heavier too because of this.

I would ditch the heavy pad. If you find you really need a self inflating pad then I'd recommend one under 16 oz like the montbell pad, the bozeman torsolite, or thermarest prolite 3. But the non inflating pads are the way to go as you can easily get by with <6 oz and use it to frame out your pack.

You really want to select a pack last as it needs to support the items that will go into it. If your gear is under 10 lbs then a frameless option will work like a MLD exodus, Golite Jam2, of Granite Gear Virga. If your gear is 10-20 lbs then I'd recommend a semi framed pack like a Granite Gear Vapor trail or Gregory G-pack or the new Osprey Exos. For SUL loads (<5 lbs) consider zpacks, golite ion, or MLD prophet.

Also as pointed out the boots need to be swapped for lightweight trail runners. Montrail, inov-8 and solamons are used by many. Its been reported that one pound on your feet eqautes to 5 pounds on your back.

The other big items to consider are cooking, rainwear, and an insulating garment.

Keep posting any questions and any list you come up with.

Jamie

The group I am in (mostly Columbus folks) is planning an overnight at Wildcat Hollow (Wayne National Forest, near Corning, OH south of Zanesville) in two weeks (Dec 13-14). Most of us are LW'ers, so it would be an opportunity to see gear from Tarptent, Gossamer Gear, Sixmoon Designs, and Mountain Laurel Designs. You are welcome to join us if you like.

Tim

>>Based on the description of my gear in the first post, what do you think is a reasonable asking price for each item? I'm not saying I'm going to sell it all tomorrow, just wanting to get a game plan together.

Nick – I've been selling stuff on eBay for about 3 years. In general, for hiking/backpacking/camping stuff, I get about 25% to 75% of the original purchase price. My eBay strategy is always to set a very low starting price, and let the auction process work. You can use the eBay search feature to determine what the same (or similar) items sold for in the past.

Tim,
That's why I like BPL, its forums, and its members. The willingness to share information and experiences with people you've not met is the absolutely best part of BPL.

Nick,
I hope you can take advantage of this offer and make some new friends while gaining valuable insight. This is the "village mentality" that everyone should follow.

Tom

There have been a lot of good suggestions so far. I also did a transition from traditional backpacking to a light weight approach.

As others have indicated, ebay is your friend. For like new, name brand items I typically would set the price at 40% retail. Items nearly always sell, often I ended up getting around 70% of retail (which was sometimes more than I paid for them since a lot of things came from sierra trading post or sales).

If you want to go light weight, it’s unlikely that park/rec departments would be a lot of help. It would be better to link up with folks from the forums here and on backpackinglight mailing list at yahoo’s groups. There is certainly a bunch of Columbus folks that you could link up with here and on the yahoo mailing list.

I will second the book Lighten Up by Don Ladigin… though since you haven’t been doing lots of backpacking, I think the Allen & Mike’s Really Cool Backpackin’ Book written by Allen O’Bannon and illustrated by Mike Clelland (who has been posting on this thread) might be a better starting point.

I have a bunch of notes about lightweight backpacking. The sections about gear are better developed that the rest of the sections.

Damn right, especially this winter. If you want to try what it's like with a quilt, just unzip your bag and crawl under it. That'll do away with the hood problem too.

I found out my Western Mountaineering Ultralite was big enough for me and my lady this way. Take some duct tape to keep the clearview pads together :-)

One more thing: If you do find that you absolutely must upgrade your sleeping bag right away, REI is having a bargain sale of their "Kilo" and "Sub-Kilo" sleeping bags. These are light-weight, down bags, for 100 bucks or under (very, very reasonable.)

I just bought the kilo +35 female-long (I'm short) and it's 1 lb., 6 oz. for 100 dollars.

If you want a hybrid between the tarp and tent, check out the TrailStar shelter from Mountain Laurel Designs…best of both worlds and lighter than a tarp-tent, rumoredly easier to set up. Here's a pic:

Nick you're cool and obviously a nice guy, and I love Doc Martins… at work… and at Social Distortion concerts.

BUT!!!
When you get the scale and weigh those bad boys and post it please I gotta know. Anyway there's two types of people in this world Montrail people and Inov8 people. I'm kidding but the most liberating thing for me in my whole ul conversion was going from waffle stomping full grain leather lumberjack boots to fleet trail runners. Did I mention I wear size 14? Get rid of a good chunk out of that base weigh first so you don't turn an ankle, buy big enough for your feet to swell but not so big your heel slides and decide if your a goretex, event, or screw it they'll dry type of guy.If you have sweaty feet skip goretex, cold feet get goretex, if no goretex get quick dry synthetic.
Have fun, practice your bear bagging, leave nothing but footprints, very lite and shallow footprints.
PS just in case there's any confusion I said "don't try to sell your gear on this site" as a joke since your tent weighs more than some guys base pack weights. I've only heard good feedback about buying from this site.

"Anyway there's two types of people in this world Montrail people and Inov8 people."

Last week after 4 days my 676g (total for pair) tongueless runners were too much. I went barefoot the last 2 miles to the car. Loved it. 3rd type?

Nick,
2 things:
I'm from Cleveland and have gone on several very nice backpacking trips with the North East Ohio Backpacking Club.
http://www.neohbackpackingclub.com/tripcalendar.aspx
Lots of excellent trips to PA, WVA, etc.

I, too, mostly like to hike in the cooler weather. A tent is not necessarily the best choice. From Columbus Day to Easter there are generally no bugs. Most camping in our region is below tree line. Thus a tarp is fine. If you have a tent you may be able to use the fly as a tarp.