mont-bell jacket

Victoria, I have several mont-bell pieces and they are top quality. The weight has been almost always exactly as specified down to 1/10 ounce. I have the UL down inner. I believe it is the only piece of gear that has not been replaced over my last 4 trips. It packs insanely small…I just pack the jacket + my sleeping bag into my sleeping bag stuff sack. I would not call it a durable piece of gear as the shell material is extremely light weight. I use mine only in camp so it does not see any bushwacking. It is down so it obviously will act like any other down garments when wet. I just take special care to keep it dry…like my bag. My only complaint with Mont-Bell is that I believe the stuff sacks that come with the gear are too small. Yes the items do stuff down that small and yes it is nice having an item take up so little volume, but I don't think it is good to stuff down to its extreme. The new Ex-Light looks awesome. The fill wieght is 1.8 oz vs the 2.0 oz for the UL inner so I would think they would be close in warmth. The weight is 5.7 oz vs 6.9 for the inner. I'm guessing they have dropped the pockets to save some weight and are using a lighter fabric. I might want to hear some reviews on the fabric if durability is a question. The UL inner has been around the block a bit so you can find many people that support it. I would think the Ex-Light would be great replacement item for fleece…you must keep it dry though. If you want a deal look for the UL inner on sale, I've been seeing them for around 90 bucks, if wetness is an issue then look at the thermawrap, significantly heavier, but works well when wet and it still packs down small.

Jamie

see the review at
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/test/TESTS/IR%20Montbell%20EX%20down%20jacket%20-%20kathryn/

I have the U.L. Down Inner Parka (not jacket) and am extremely pleased with it. I also reviewed it for backpackgeartest.org.

Durability is probably an individual decision. I don't wear mine during heavy hiking (I would overheat too much), but have worn it on a few light/short hikes and it does well on the occasional brush-up with branches, greenbrier, etc. on trail. For camp and sleeping, it's plenty durable.

You can read my review here:

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Clothing/Jackets/Montbell%20UL%20Down%20Inner%20Parka/Test%20Report%20by%20Pamela%20Wyant/

keep in mind the UL inner's use 15 denier nylon, the EX light is only 7 denier. You cannot compare the two.
If you are using this for anything but sleeping, or in completely windless conditions it may be ok.. but I have found that with the UL (15 denier) nylon, in winds of just 10mph they will cut right into it (mainly thru the seams). I can only imagine the 7 denier version is going to cause problems if used alone without a shell. Hopefully, we can get a full review soon. Its very light, and $160 is actually fair considering much of the down jacket market is filled with more expensive and far less quality (read: tnf) apparrel.

Down is lighter for the weight than synthetic. However, when you get into really small amounts of down, the difference is minimal (as the the material holding the insulation is a bigger percentage of the overall weight). For a light jacket/sweater, there isn't as big a difference between down and synthetic. A synthetic puffy jacket is much warmer per weight than fleece without having the moisture disadvantages of down. Much of ultralight community has moved from fleece to synthetic puffy jackets for that reason.

In defense of fleece, though, it does have the advantages of being durable and breathing really well. I tend to use fleece for day hiking (since I am rougher on my stuff when I day hike and I'm less concerned about weight).

thanks everyone for posting. ross:do you have a specific puffy jacket in mind? i do need to keep my weight down, so hence the interest in down…thanks

I've been happy with my Bozeman Mountain Works Cocoon Hoody, but it looks like it is out of stock. I've heard good things about The Montbell thermawrap (http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=73&p_id=2301401 or http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=73&p_id=2301402).

Got one. I couldn't resist. It's so light, amazing. You don't notice wearing it. The quality of the down is obvious.

It is not thick, it's like a liner jacket. It is not especially warm. No hood, loose neck (but tall), and no hem cord. A hardshell or windshirt over it helps hugely.

No pockets, but the arms are long enough to hide your hands if you need. The arm elastic is not too tight to get over medium forearms.

Fitwise, I am a Large in Montbell, while a medium in some other brands. For example, I returned a Thermawrap Med at one time for being too tight across the back.

I got it at campsaver for 145. They may be coming out with a better feeling and quieter fabric soon, this one looks like a trash bag according to my girlfriend. It is quite downproof, no leaks.

It is less than 1/5 the weight of my trusty old Sierra Designs jacket. About 3/4 inch thick, sewn thru. It would not be enough of an insulation layer for cold winter. With a sunshirt or base layer, windshirt or shell in addition, it's great for spring and fall. Balaclava and hat. If you are dealing with a bunch of wet weather, or unseasonable spring-fall storms, you may prefer the thermawraps. The stuff sack is plenty big, this thing could fit in a 12 oz can.

Paul, Thanks for shelling out the money so you could update us:) It looks like once again Mont-Bell has a winner. I'm especially pleased to hear the shell fabric on the ex light looks like it can hold the down. An insulating piece for under 6 oz is wild. Dropping the pockets is a good call, I never really use them on the UL.

If you don't mind would you share your height and weight. Sorry fur such a personal request it would help understand Mont-Bell sizing. My UL inner is a medium and it fits close but not tight, I'm 5' 9.5" and weigh 155 lbs. I purchased a thermawrap vest and it was skin tight in the medium.

One other item of note I was on Mont-Bells sight and it looks like they have updated the thermawrap vest. They have adjusted the armholes (a common complaint).

Jamie

Jamie,

What was the complaint about the vest's armholes and what was the fix? I am considering purchase of Monbell's Alpine Down vest this winter. I don't know if the armholes are similar but inquiring minds want to know.

me:
height: 5' 10.5"
weight: 168 lb
around chest: 40"
around shoulders at arm pit height: 48"
across shoulders: 18.5"
waist: 35"

It's a tough call.

My large definitely has room for a medium fleece underneath, a bit extra room in the collar, but I wouldn't want it any tighter across the back.

Patagonia Micropuff is popular. ID PLQ is light. MH compressor is beefy.

Primaloft compresses best of the synthetics, supposedly.
The mont-bell thermawrap insulation works better-than-average when wet, again supposedly.

Michael, I only owned a thermawrap vest only briefly so I can not speak from much experience about the arm holes in the vest. But what I recall is that several reviewers mentioned the size of the arm holes being too large for the size of the vest. I think the complaint was that it let some air in. I think it was a relatively minor issue, but looks like Mont-Bell has made a few adjustments in the '09 vest.

Jamie

For my size of 6'5" and weighing 235#s I am greatly limited by what I can find that fits. I am currently using a Patagonia Micro Puff XXL Pullover that is pretty good and a Cabelas XLT modded Down Jacket for the really cold. I have always been wary of Montbell's items because I tried an XL on a few years back and it was about 3-4" too short. Since they have started to make XXLs I ordered a Thermawrap off of the web specials to see if it will fit and will let the list know. I appreciate the information about the inner down jacket and the other new lightweight down jacket from Montbell but what real insulative properties do you get from 2oz or of less of down? And what temps are you able to take the jacket, a light baselayer and a shell down to, 40F?

I have an older model MB down inner jacket (with button front) that's quite a nice piece to pack for dry cool to cold weather. It really does pack tiny. Newer MB jackets and vests, while much more expensive than mine have better quality down, so I believe will provide even more warmth. Mine's about equivalent in warmth to the Patagonia micropuff pullover, which is bulkier and heavier but a safer garment for wet conditions.

I'll suggest also looking at the Feathered Friends Hyperion, which has 5oz of fill.

>Newer MB jackets and vests, while much more expensive than mine have better quality down, so I believe will provide even more warmth

Not really. I finally upgraded my old UL down inner for a new one (after it was attacked by a stove!!!), and I'm pretty disappointed. Although the zipper and pockets are a nice addition, the fabric is not as soft, the down is not as puffy layed side-by-side with the old one, and they've made the length of the body shorter, ditching the drop tail that was so nice to sit on. Lees loft and less total coverage = not as warm.

Rick, FF said they would make a jacket for me in a long if I don't mind paying twice the cost! Not worth it for me. I will just keep using my modded Cabelas Down XLT Jacket I picked up for $60 and suffer the 5 ounce difference including an extra ounce of down.

Allison, what temps was the jacket actually useful in for you on either one?

I got my montbell down jacket on sale on the internet.

Please note that at least with the women's sizes, the jackets run small. I am a small, but the medium fits me correctly. My friend is a medium & is happy with the women's large.

Hi Allison,

I hope you gave that stove a stern talking to! I'm disappointed to learn of your experince with the newer jackets. I might be guilty of believing specifications in lieu of seeing product–it won't be the first time.

Western Mountaineering makes a Flash vest (3.5 oz) but to my knowledge, no jacket equivalent. Perhaps if enough folks start lobbying….The Flight jacket is 10.5.

Hey, yeah there will be a Flash Jacket coming, along with the similar Rab Microlight:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/orsm08_appealing_apparel.html

If it's freezing, you'll have to keep moving a bit. With a capilene baselayer and nylon sunshirt underneath, balaclava and beanie, powerstretch tights, I was OK cooking dinner and getting setup for the night at ~38 degrees F. Didn't bother to put on my Ether windshirt over it, but I did in the morning (~30 deg. F) before we got on the trail. Not too windy. Cold bare feet may have been a distraction.

Brett, I have the original snap closure UL down inner jacket and have successfully worn it while winter camping in the upper 20s. Not by itself of course! My layering system consists of a light Smartwool ss T, an Icebreaker bodyfit 260 ls zip-T, a fleece ls zip-T, then the down inner. Pretty warm the whole time as long as I was active or stayed out of the wind when I wasn't.

But why are you wearing four layers to keep warm while being active in the upper 20s?. Why not get a slightly thicker/warmer down jacket and cut out the fleece?

To use a heavier down jacket would defeat the concept of layering, which simply stated is to employ several thin layers rather than thick ones or even one thick layer. The reason for this is for more efficient thermoregulation. For instance, if I,m hammering up a steep section and start working up a sweat I can remove the MB inner jacket and the other three (thin) layers will keep me from chilling. On the other hand, if I dispensed with the fleece (Haglofs, 6 oz) and the MB inner (7 oz), substituting instead my NF Nuptse (28 oz), then I would probably start to overheat way before I started to hammer up that steep streatch, and when I removed it I would immediately begin to chill. The caveat is that I'm describing the system I use in the PNW. Now, back in my old stomping grounds of Montana, where it is frequently below zero, I would definitely take the Nuptse (plus the other three layers). To further illustrate, outdoor shops sell a lot of expedition weight baselayers. Again, this defeats the whole idea of layering and thermoregulation…they should be selling two lightweight baselayers instead. Always go with the lightest layers.

Another reason for not using a heavier down jacket is that the total weight of my four layers is just about the same as the Nuptse: 30 oz vs 28oz. And if I relied on the latter, then I'd still have to pack some baselayers, increasing total pack weight.

Another 'nother reason is that the PNW is wet…not a good place to rely too much on down gear. So if my MB inner wetted out because of some unfortunate mishap, the rest of my (3 layer) gear is hydrophobic and I'd still have a pretty good chance to live to tell about it. But mostly it's just about layering, and after reading the recent posts about softshells I've found something else to research. Darn!

I am not asking you to go hog wild with a thicker insulation layer but maybe the down inner and fleece could be replaced with an Alpine Light Down Jacket that could be zipped and unzipped for venting purposes. I understand the value of a layer system and am currently using one similar to yours except my first two pieces are Capilene and I cut out the fleece and the down inner to replace it with a Micro Puff Pullover and a DriDucks jacket. It gives me better warmth insulation and a waterproof breathable shell so I don't have to worry about my stuff getting wet. If it is colder I break out the modded Cabelas Down jacket at around 19oz but a Alpine Down Jacket would work just as well. If it is going to be warmer I use the synthetic in case of rain and moisture but the colder it gets there is less chance of wetting out by far so down is brought into it because it is a much warmer layer.