John Muir Trail fastpack

I use Heed, Perpetuem and Recoverite for road bike racing, but never gave much thought to using it for longer hikes. What have you guys found to be the easiest way to mix it while hiking? How do you package it? I've heard of numerous ways from ultramarathoners (ie. put it into balloons, ziplocs, etc). I would think ziplocs and some sort of cardboard funnel would work fine with a wide mouth bottle.

I would think that making a concentrated 4 hour bottle (like 4 servings worth into one bottle to be sipped every 15 minutes or so) would work more efficiently as it would be less mixing time.

I wouldn't use a bladder for this–I've done it for mountain biking and found that the perpetuem would clump up and block the hose.

Works fine packaged in superlight PET bottles like water bottles if you're doing 1000+ calorie amounts. I will premix up to 4 hours if it's cold out but in the heat I rarely mix more than 2 hours. If it's got protein in it, it goes bad fast.

I don't use perpetuem anymore, just mix my own but the concept/execution is the same. Ziplocks work okay too but pouring and storing bulk (1000-5000calories) seems to work better in bottles in my experience, esp if they get buried in a pack.

I'm thinking of using this for a 2-3 day effort, so I'm not sure how many empty bottles I would want in my pack (though there wouldn't really be that many). I just like having my pack volume shrink as time goes on.

"I would think ziplocs and some sort of cardboard funnel would work fine with a wide mouth bottle."

Hi Zack,
Another way is to clip a small section off one corner of the zip lock bag and pour the Perpetuem into your bottle through it. Works like a charm. When you pour it out of the regular bag opening, the powder tends to hang up on the zip lock ridge and pour rather messily.

"I would think that making a concentrated 4 hour bottle (like 4 servings worth into one bottle to be sipped every 15 minutes or so) would work more efficiently as it would be less mixing time."

This is pretty much what I do, only I mix it double strength. But that's strictly personal preference. It's definitely more efficient.

Great insight from everyone's perspective, and thanks for the ideas for my JMT attempt this Aug. I can't take Perpetuem, but I'm gaining some good knowledge from everyone. Any suggestions on the packs used for about 5-6 days? Thanks

Paul,
"I can't take Perpetuem, …"

Someone is forbidding you to take it?

Or you can't consume it?

Aloha Greg – I trained with Sustained Energy for years doing IMs and ARs – no issues. Years have passed, and tried Perpetuem for months training for 100 milers. After 4 hours, system gives way. The soy content is high for my system, therefore, I can't take it. Sure, weak stomach I guess. I use Clip2 and Clif Shot mixed per 26 oz.

I have also been using Hammer products for many years for IM races, however in the past two years, I have been using Infinit Nutrition, their IM blend, and it has worked out great, especially in hot weather, compared to Perpetum I would say it is not as thik…has anyone used it for fastpacking?

Mark,
Congrats on the JMT! The Three Sisters Loop is really nice hike, and provides a variety of sights. Here is a trip report I did about my 3/4 loop around them.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=10125

There are also plenty of side trips through lava flows and along waterfalls in the area. Mike Little has documented some great hikes in the area.
http://members.tripod.com/mikelittle/index.htm

what kind of training do you do ?

Art,
For "ultra" distance/days I would focus on quality training that improves you overall cardio and power levels and spares your body of constant pounding.

Specifically, 1 to 2 hour efforts at LT-10 a couple a times a week, an interval day, and only one long day. Approaching your target date you will want to do back-to-back-to-back to verify and build confidence. But I would be wary of multiple 100+ mile weeks.

"Specifically, 1 to 2 hour efforts at LT-10 a couple a times a week …"

Terminology — what does "LT-10" mean? I presume something like 10 bpm, or 10%, off Lactate Threshold?

Thanks.

Terminology — what does "LT-10" mean?

"10 heartbeats below Lactate Threshold"

Your all day cruising pace with a pack will probably be around 30 beats below LT. To train your endurance you want a little more stress, over a couple of hours.

A big part of training is learning how Your body works. LT-10 is a good starting point, but as always, YMMV.

Ultrarunning.com and other sites have a lot of info on training.

Hi Art,
I agree almost with everything Greg has said but consider this: if one plans on doing continuous 40+ miles per day, you better have continuous training as well. How do you know whether your body can handle those kinds of miles without doing those kinds of miles?

I am currently getting ready for the Colorado Trail at the end of August and here is the training regiment that works for me. For the past 4 months, I have been doing high quality training hikes three times per week at 20 to 25-mile days (with a 20 lb pack) as my base training. My weekly numbers are about 60-70 miles per week with about 12,000 ft of elevation gains. Now I am starting my continuous long-day training for the next 8 weeks. I will slowly increase my mileage until I can do continuous 30-35 mile days with some 40+ miles days thrown in there. In fact, I will be doing a test run on the TRT at the end of July. Then I will start slowing down about two weeks before the Colorado Trail so that I am well rested. If you are doing too much, your body will let you know immediately so either step back a notch or take some time off. I periodically take off a whole week several times during the year to let my body rest. I used this training schedule last year and was able to complete three long hikes (JMT, TRT and OT) at these paces and felt I was well prepared both mentally and physically. A key point to remember is that this training works for me – you need to figure out what works for you.

Good luck on your JMT attempt, it sure is one of the most beautiful trails I’ve ever done.

I got a workout just reading this post! Time to hit the couch with some hand weights and pass-out watching girls tennis.

Carlos, it makes sense that a long fast-pack is the best way to train for a long fast-pack. Unfortunately for me I don't have the time to train this way. I do intense and short training sessions instead. Running is my primary exercise for conditioning. At home I run the Black Rock trail at either 9 or 15 mile distances depending on how I feel. This trail goes from the Deschutes River up to Lava Butte at 4500 ft and has a great view of the Cascades. It is also a very HOT trail and is good for heat training. When I'm at work, on a ship at sea, I am limited to the treadmill located in the laundry room. I try not to dwell on how pathetic this is. There I run for an hour at 7 to 8 mi/hr. I also use 1 lb. wrist weights. This year I built a squat bar for our weight machine to build more leg strength, which I determined I needed last year. I do 40 to 60 reps of 240 lb squats. I'm working up to reps of 100. In the winter we tie the ship up in Portland and I can run in Forest Park. This is an awesome place to run and I either run 10 hilly miles or a very steep 6 miles. At home in the winter I xc skate ski at Mt Bachelor, which is real fun and the most aerobic activity there is. This summer I'll do a couple of long day hikes in the Three Sisters and an easy backpack in Redwoods NP with the family. I hope to do the JMT again this year in early August south to north. Maybe I'll see you on the trail.

Interesting mix of workout routines.

Inspiring! Mark, Thank You for the report! Good job N-2-S Carlos!!

Mark,

Thanks for posting this report. I know it was awhile ago, but it was indeed inspiring as the last poster noted. I'm planning a JMT through hike for 2011 in July. I really needed to see this. Thanks again… Oh, and Carlos, congratulations to you as well.

Kendall

Mark,

I'm so impressed. Guys like you make me believe we are capable of far more than we know.

Thanks for the inspiration.

Ryan Commons

Mark:

Following up on your old trek report; I got a couple of those Katadyn bottles for some fastpacks I went to in 2010. The bottles were very convenient. I saved lots of time and weight. I basically used one. The other one was for "just in case". However, I did think that, at 7+ oz of net weight per bottle, the 'ole Aquafina bottle/pill combo was most likely going to return to my pack. This year however, I am trying Sawyer's "Squeeze Water Filtration System". This system comes in with three different bag sizes and a filter. The system's weight is three (3)oz. That is a 4+ oz savings from the Katadyn bottles' net weight.

I'm going to try this system out in Yosemite and the TRT before heading out N2S in September.

Has anyone out there tried the Sawyer system?

jd

Just came across your post while doing research for a possible fastback of JMT next summer and went to your site. Great articles!

Thanks,

Brad
Brooklyn, NY

Great article. I'm considering making a fast and light bid on the JMT this coming summer. Hope to use ya'll as helpful references. I did the 50+ mile Red Peak Pass loop in Yosemite in under 48 hours this past summer (it begins and ends at Glacier Point). I can think of no finer training loop yet encountered. Approximately 8-10k vertical on the first day (26 miles) and almost all level or levelish for day two. Only saw people after hiking into Washburn Lake and beyond on day two…if anyone wants deets hit me up!

I've done the Rea Lakes Loop 8 times now. 6 of them in one day, the other two in 2.
This is an excelent training loop.