Rethinking the Double-Walled Tent

I honestly don't think different noseeums will make much difference in breathability at all. They all have pretty much the same teeny-tiny holes. You mentioned bivy. That means it's a bag made mostly with rain proof or highly rain resistant material plus a panel or two of mesh — with the entire interior occupied by a heat-generating occupant.

If it's a sultry summer night, then you can expect to feel warm…

sorry the bivy i'm talking about is a bug bivy. sil floor mesh a-frame over you.

-Tim

This is where a material wiki page would be nice. It could list the various materials, their weight, their water resistance (if any) as well as their breathability. I'm pretty sure there is a difference in breathability between the two types of mesh used for the two types of head nets sold by BPL:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/ultralight_noseeum_headet.html
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/ultralight_headnet.html

The description on both products says as much.

thats true about those 2 head nets, except it's not a hidden truth. They tell you that in the product description. What i am wondering is if there is a way to find the most breathable no-see-um. As roger stated, and i have experienced, they don't all seem to be the same.

I agree with the idea of a wiki, or something like that. It would help a lot as many fabrics are sold as the same thing but in fact may not really be equal.

-Tim

I also believe (correct me if I'm wrong on this) that Cuben Fiber is lighter than any other material that could hold back a mosquito. MLD uses Spectralite.60 (which is .6/oz./yd.). I'm not sure if nano-seeum is better than that. If not, it makes for interesting design decisions (for a long time, you made a tent assuming that your rain-proof materials would be heavier than your other walls — that is no longer true).

Excellent point Ross. The typical noseeum netting weighs 0.7 oz/sy.

I guess the breathability would depend on how big the holes are. If the holes get too big the fabric will not keep the bugs out. If it has really small holes there is more fabric and then less air movement but better bug protection. Maybe in the future some kind of really fine weave is possible using very fine thread.

Exactly Brett. The lighter, more breathable nanoseeum does not handle really small gnats or other tiny bugs like the heavier stuff does. The two links I mentioned earlier make note of that in their comparison. For me, I'm mainly worried about mosquitoes and flies, both of which are no problem with the lighter nanoseeum.

Theoretically, it could be possible to put little holes in Cuben. Then again, the holes might grow and then you might not have bug protection. I'm not sure if the Dyneema/Spectra fibers which prevents the mylar from ripping are close enough to prevent the holes from getting too big. If not, you might be able to make a material like Brett suggests by simply removing the mylar from the Cuben.

I'm not sure if anyone is working on materials like this. It would be pretty much useless to the sailing crowd (the folks who gave us Cuben) and since it wouldn't be waterproof, a lot of the outdoor folks wouldn't be interested. A new waterproof breathable material sells really well, but a new material that is simply more breathable is a tougher sell (although it obviously has its place).

My goodness. .07 oz vs .06 oz per sq yard, are we not talking about 1 oz or less difference for a full inner ? Does it really matter ?.
Franco

if long term durability isn't an issue i think wedding veil mesh is even lighter than cuben. It won't block gnats and noseeums but like has been said that isn't a big deal most of the time anyway.

-Tim

I have a bunch of this and plan to make an enclosure for my upper half with it some time

> wedding veil mesh is even lighter than cuben
If you mean tulle, I measured some at under 10 gsm. Fragile though! I didn't use it.
2c

yeah thats what i mean. I figure it's good for a week long hike before it is destroyed if handled with absolute care.

-Tim