ultimate double wall tent

nm

check out Big Sky International.

Cons: somewhat expensive, and the owner's reputation is…sketchy.

Pros: the tents absolutely rock, my 2P is superb. Workmanship, design and weather resistance are all excellent. Weight is negligible for a full-on bug proof, weather proof tent for 3+ seasons.

Their 1P (if you can find one) is barely over two pounds.

How about the new REI Quarterdome T1? Rated at 2 lbs. 12 oz, it has 14.6 sq/ft of interior volume, plus a vestibule. And, it's only $179 before REI sales, 20% off coupons, etc.

nm

Also really, really narrow — a nylon coffin.

As for the Big Sky Evolution tent, I still haven't read any feedback from recent buyers about receiving their tents within the stated timeframe. So OP, until buyers post positively — DON'T click the buy button!!! If you want more background info., do a quick search within the forum.

The ultimate double wall tent weighing under 3 pounds does not exist. The reason is that tents are always a result of compromises.

For myself, the "ultimate" tent is a Montbell monoframe diamond shelter. In the summer I pitch the tent "fast-fly" style with the tarp and tent pole only. Inside, I use my 6 ounce bivy bag as a barrier against bugs and to keep dew drops off my sleeping bag. This set up weighs 29-30 ounces depending on if I bring normal or heavy duty stakes. In the winter, I'll often bring the inner tent rather than the bivy because it creates a cozy area, sheltered from wind, that's big enough where I can sit up and change clothes inside. In this configuration, the tent weighs about 2.5 pounds, again depending on how heavy duty of stakes I bring.

In either configuration, there is a compromise, which is lack of headroom and foot room. Sleeping in it in fast fly configuration on a slight angle (hill), using a plastic groundsheet (slippery), and I have to be careful my feet don't slide out from underneath the fly in the middle of the night. I haven't had it happen in a rainstorm, but I imagine this could get me in a lot of trouble sometime if I don't learn to keep my feet inside the tent.

At just over three pounds (3.25) the Hilleberg Akto is a very nice double wall shelter for solo use. The materials and workmanship are of the highest quality and the design is very well thought out. The Akto is very storm worthy, will handle high winds and can be pushed into winter conditions with some care. This shelter does require some set up room and would likely be restrictive to anyone 6' or over.

It's not SUL but for taller campers (I'm 6'4") who want a truly weather-worthy tent the Unna is a great choice. With BPL stakes (and a tulle panel added by the previous owner) mine is about 4 pounds and is a palace.

They are expensive, but check out the Stephenson's Warmlite tents. http://www.warmlite.com

Doesn't someone else sell the Big Sky tents, so you might be sure you will get one before the next millenium?

Yep, Big Sky's probably the way to go. Full disclosure: I am one of his few dealers; we don't have any of his tents in stock right now, but I got a call from him recently saying that he'd have tents in and ready to ship this week. His factory is back on line after making refugee tents for China. I know he hasn't had the greatest reputation for shipping, but I think a lot of it had to do with his tents hitting with a big splash and not being able to keep up with demand? Anyway-

The tents are pretty awesome. You could actually get an approximately 40 square foot double-wall, freestanding tent with two doors & two vestibules. I'll be ordering one for myself in the next week or two. The standard 2P comes in about 3 pounds; if you get the SUL fly, it saves 3 or 4 ounces. If you get the CF poles, you save another 3 or 4 ounces. Each option adds roughly $100.00 to the tent cost. I'm pretty keen on having a weatherproof tent on entry/egress, so I'll be ordering mine with the porch fly option, which will totally protect the opening–adds a couple ounces. From what you're saying, the 2P with porch fly and CF poles should come in a hair under 3 pounds. Keep in mind they recommend the aluminum poles for their durability.

If you just want a solo tent, the 1P (again, double-wall, freestanding, here single door/vestibule, but storage under fly on back) can weigh only 29 ounces! That's with the SUL fly and CF poles. But holy wah, a lot of bivy sacks weigh at least a couple pounds.

.

I would recommend AGAINST buying anything from BS unless you are sure (i.e. Brad or other reputable dealers) confirms to you that there is actual inventory right in the store ready to ship!

I have talked to another dealer once inquiring about inventory. After three weeks of trying, even they couldn't get an answer from Bob Molen.

With some of the "wait periods" I've heard reported on Big Sky tents, it makes me wonder. In a year and a half, you could learn a lot about sewing and probably sew yourself a tent out of silnyon and noseeum, of the same quality as BS tents, for probably about the same price, though maybe it would end up costing a little more total if you had to buy a sewing machine.

John:

Like with everything else, this one is a matter of balance and preference.

The Seedhouse 1SL does slant in a way that rain will get in when you open it in the rain. But you know what? As a Seedhouse 2 SL owner, I can tell you that with the help of the door flap — you can get in and out with very minimal raindrops — meaning all it takes are a few wipes with your towel. If you think about it, when it's really raining — even a tent with an awning overhang — you will still be bringing more than a few raindrops into the tent just from your wet hiking clothes!

If you look at tents with awnings — they can be a whole pound or more heavier than the Seedhouse! Your call of course, but for me, I choose to spend an extra 11 seconds wiping up 15 drops of water — versus hauling an extra half pound or full pound for 9 or 10 or 12 hours every day that I am hiking out there — rain or shine. Some people call the slanted door a "design flaw". For me, it's a great compromise that costs me very little in exchange for good weight savings. YMMV.

Between the two, I would go for the SL2. It's half a pound heavier than the SL1 for a lot more space and comfort. It's also essentially the same weight as the nylon coffin aka MSR Hubba — but again, with a lot more living space.

The Seedhouse 2 SL's pole structure — along with its steep "modified A" design — both make it structurally suitable for winter use in terms of deflecting wind and rain and throwing off snow. We're not talking about Denali or the Himalayas of course, but 'normal' winter season camping with moderate snowload. The all-mesh inner tent pretty much disqualifies it as a true winter tent… but it's still good to know that my 3-season tent is structurally strong enough for an early winter or late spring freak storm — all without much of any weight penalty.

Ben,
I'd never heard that one before. Whats the deal?

Denis:

Please feel free to disagree — but 26" width is a coffin to me — be it lying on my back or sleeping on my side. As a side sleeper, I bend my knees a bit — which can bring that part of my sleeping bag into contact with the vertical side of the narrow tent floor.

Another coffin that comes to mind is the REI T1.

The problem is that most cutting edge tent designers don't make double walled tents. Silnylon has been used for tents for several years now, but most standard tent makers don't use it. In fact, silnylon is now such a standard, that a lot of the cutting edge tent makers have moved on to other materials (Cuben, Spinnaker, etc.).

The exception, of course, is BS. If I remember right, the first BPL review of one of the BS tents said something like "nice to see a standard double walled tent built with modern materials". There is nothing radical, or revolutionary (or even clever) about the design of BS tents. For overall design, it looks a lot like a standard REI tent (it does have that nice corner feature). Both the cutting edge tent makers and many of the standard tent makers have more creative designs (check out tarptent.com, http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/ or http://www.msrgear.com/tents/hubbahubba.asp for example).

The BS double walled design has its advantages and disadvantages. It is free-standing, but you have to carry all the poles. Most of the cutting edge, ultralight tents are designed so that you can use your hiking poles to support the tent. This makes the tent stronger while lowering your pack weight.

So, while BS does provide a nice free standing double walled tent (made with modern materials) it does not incorporate a very advanced design (in my opinion). It would be nice if a maker sold something like Scott's great tent: http://tinyurl.com/5ast55. It could even be modified to have two poles on the outside with some sort of hub system. I think there would be a solid market for that sort of product.

I should mention that some ultralight shelter systems incorporate a tent bivy plus a tarp. Such systems are very light and do provide the main advantage of a double walled tent (rain protection without having to worry about ventilation to reduce condensation). I hesitate to call them tents, however, because they are not one unit and provide a lot less room in the bug shelter (one advantage of double walled tent is that you can avoid the bugs on a hot day by taking off the top and just hang out in the tent).

Ben,

I agree, I've had some nights in a tent that wide. No fun. However the way they break one of the poles and get vertical sidewalls is one of the most novel tent design ideas that I've seen in awhile. If Big Sky used this pole system, maybe plus a short pole piece to clip between the "gable" poles, for heavier weather, what an improvement to the "Evolution 2P-IIvs". If, of course, BS made tents at all.

Another problem is that many so-called 'double-wall tents' are really single-wall tents (or tarps) with an inner bug net, for summer use. Often the poles on these attach to the inner tent with clips.

What others call a double-skin tent really does have two full skins and is designed for serious winter snow and storm use. The poles are sleeved into the fly, and the inner tent can be closed right up to keep out spindrift.

A lot of the confusion (imho) in this area comes from the same name being used for these two very different classes. Then you get some slightly odd intermediates like the Dragontail (which collects condensation).

Yeah, I'm biased, but I need something which can take serious weather in the winter in the snow, for a week on end.

Cheers

> In a year and a half, you could learn a lot about sewing and probably sew yourself a tent out of silnyon and noseeum,

Very true.
See http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/DIY_RNCSummer.htm
and http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/DIY_RNCWinter.htm
for my designs. They are available for **NON commercial** use.

Cheers

Thanks for posting that, Roger. I'd seen your page before but forgot to bookmark it.

Roger, you're the only person I've ever encountered who feels that double-wall tents are just single walls (albeit with "an inner bug net"). The type of tent you refer to as "double-skinned" is what virtually everyone would just call a double-wall winter tent! :O

I'm not sure why you insist that a summer tent cannot be a double-walled tent. Yes, some inner tents are mostly mesh. Love that ventilation! Mind you, I have had what are now fashionably called convertible tents, and they're grand, but they're also always a bit heavier… (Since you mentioned the Dragontail, my favorite winter tent is the MSR Fury. It could do with a peak vent like the old Moss, though.)

Let's let summer tents be summer tents, winter tents be for winter, double-wall tents those with two layers between you and the stars, and single walls just that, eh?

I have not tried them myself, but Terra Nova makes several double-wall models ranging from 1 lb 14 oz to 2 lb 10 oz. There are reviews here in the Reader Reviews section and also at backpackgeartest.org and at outdoorsmagic.com.
They’re available from Prolite Gear.