Suggestions 4 Storing Caldera Cone

For some help with Kiwi speak, see this link
http://www.epinions.com/content_2637668484

Franco
BTW, by leaving NZ and coming to Australia, I have simultaneously lifted the IQ of two countries.

Thanks, Allison and Franco.

BTW, is it pronounced munt as in hunt — or moont?

Ben, it sounds like "hunt", but this is starting to get awefully 'chaffy' so we better behave ourselves!

LOL Franco, be careful none of your Ozzie friends read that comment.

I'm with Ben on this one. I think the CC is a clever design but it's NOT compact by any stretch of the imagination. It seems to me that there are 2 main arguments for making it seem more practical than it really is (in terms of packing):

1. Wrap it around something else like a water bottle or tent pole bag.

Well, I don't like having my cooking gear scattered around different places in my pack—I like having everything together in my cook kit so it’s ready to go when I’m ready to cook and I don’t have to hunt down components. Plus, I don’t carry a water bottle or anything else with a sufficient enough diameter to wrap the windscreen around to protect it well.

2. Add a useless red plastic cup that melts if exposed to hot liquid to the top of your pot and make a bulky tower to wrap your screen around.

Umm…enough said.

While the CC system may be efficient and relatively fast, it seems counter to UL to have to add more things to your pack just to be able to “compactly” pack another thing. Sorry, not sold.

Chaffy? Here, it's chatty. :)

No worries about either, we are talking about the caldera cone possibly getting munted up, right? That's certainly gear related.

Jason, don't hold back, tell us what you really think!

Jason, I understand your personal preference, but the arguement that it is not UL depends on how you use it. In my many stove tests, the Caldera Cone improves fuel economy with most set-ups, to the extent that anyone out for more than a night or two would save on fuel weight more than the extra cone weight. I have even tested this in the field. Add to that the ability to 'overfill' the 12-10 stove and recover the left over fuel via use of a snuffer cap (overfilling also increases fuel economy) and you have a highly stable wind-resistant stove which quickly pays for it's weight in fuel savings. This is true if you use alky, esbit, or remote butane canister stoves.

I have changed the plastic cup I carry for a larger diameter one that I cut down to the same volume. This cup now takes the small end of my rolled up CC up to the start of the dovetail whilst the big end fits in the MSR kettle. The stove fits well inside the small end and a second cup, if there are 2 of us, fits in the big end. Other cook bits fit around this except I keep the fuel outside my pack in case of spills. It all depends on the rest of your system.

Allison,
How does overfilling increase fuel efficiency?

Chris

I've been storing my CC screen rolled up tightly (2" diameter at the wide end 1" diameter at the narrow end) and I have had no problems with the dovetail. I keep it wrapped tightly with a 1/4" piece of webbing and buckle(removed from my Montbell #90 Pad) and roll it in my pack towel to keep the sharp ends of the cone from cutting other things in my pack. The stove goes in my pot.

Chris

I don't understand the physics of it, but there is an optimum amount of fuel for most stoves (not just alky ones) for best fuel efficieny. I think for the 12-10 it is around 1.3 oz?? In other words, using excess fuel will get you more cups boiled per ounce of fuel as long as you can recover the excess fuel. The best way I've found to recover the fuel is to snuff the stove as soon as your finished cooking, then IMMEDIATELY suck the remaining fuel back out. You need to do this before the hot fuel gets a chance to evaporate. I use the Packafeather fueling kit and generally recover all the remaining fuel minus a gram.

http://packafeather.com/fuelbottle.html

Butane canister stove users will also notice better stove performance when the canister is closer to full than empty, but no one wants a closet full of half used canisters sitting around!

I store mine in a protein shaker bottle. It holds the cone wrapped inside with the fuel bottle in the middle and the stove sitting on top. Its a great way to store it without bending it at all. I have the Ti and use wood buring feature and I take the floor and wrap it in my sleep pad so it doesn't get bent. Its a great system that has worked for me and you also have a nice cup to use as well.

I have the same Packafeather lid/straw for recovery on a 12oz Dr. Pepper bottle. It works great with my SnowPeak 900 and Caldera kitchen: boil the water, pour it into the AGG cup/cozy, and immediately snuff out the stove. I pour an ounce or so and then recover the unused back to the bottle. I also have a BrassLite 600 which works great as a solo kit (and can boil on 1/2oz!), but I don't use any other cup with it so I just let it burn off. There usually isn't much fuel left anyway, but a cup with cozy would be great for "packability" and some testing may be in order for making the most on longer trips.

Hi Allison

> Butane canister stove users will also notice better stove performance when the canister is closer to full than empty,

Hum? References?

References…ummm personal communication of unpublished data from talking to myself ;)

I have tried boiling 5 cups of water with an MSR windpro and a) full canister; b) half-full canister; and c) nearly empty. Aside from the fact that the nearly empty canister is slower to boil even when inverted, it used as much as 4 grams extra fuel to boil the same amount of water. Half-full canister was in-between.

Adding a Caldera cone to this set-up saved another ~4 grams fuel to all the tests…so potentially using a full canister and a cone could save up to 8 grams of fuel over a nearly empty canister with just an ordinary windscreen. Of course that was with 5 cups water which is more than most folks boil at one time, so the savings for a 2-cupper might not be earth-shattering…

I have the 12-10 stove & CC and would like to recover fuel but I haven't figured our an effective way to snuff out the stove. Placing a tin foil lid on top didn't work, the flame just shoots out the side holes. Can someone please share their trick for snuffing out this stove?

Mark, you'll need something that completely blocks oxygen from getting to the fuel. It really depends on what else you carry that might be adaptable to this use. I use the snuffer cap from a featherfire stove (a perfect fit on the 12-10), but if you don't have one of those, maybe an inverted mug or tuna can. Or you can try moulding your foil to make a tighter fit around the inner rim of the stove. If the primer cup on the 12-10 were not attached, it would make an ideal snuffer cap. Maybe I'll suggest it to the TD guys…

Mark,
Pour the boiling water into any other cup and use your cookpot upside down to snuff it out. You'll need a straw to get in there to recover the fuel as it does not pour out cleanly.
Check this out:
http://www.packafeather.com/fuelbottle.html
It also works on 12oz bottles, not just the 20oz. I'm going to try to find a 8oz bottle it will work with later in the week.

"I'm going to try to find a 8oz bottle it will work with later in the week"

I use a 200ml bottle (~6-7oz??) without a problem with the packafeather straw. However, the 500ml (20oz) bottles are better to wrap a cone around if you don't have a cone Caddy.

If you use a 1 gram simmer ring (see my post) then you can easily snuff out the 12-10 with a bit of foil.