Aluminum “Flat Fold” Cook Pot

Bill, I was only thinking about this very same idea just the other day, but as usual, yet again you have led the pack!!!!!!!! I will be interested to hear what results you get from this. Keep up the good work. Regards Scott.

It seems to me, I remember (from the Mat Sci class I took waaaaaay too long ago) that there are different “tempers” of aluminum and getting the right temper would likely allow this design to last longer…

Even if it would stand up to a bit of abuse, this could be great for short weekend trips… just toss it in the recylcling bin when you’re done…

Scott and Joshua: Thanks for your comments.

I don’t have a lot of confidence that the Aluminum pan liner will last very long as a cook pot. My first test with fire will use an Esbit tablet. I think they might burn with less heat and will see what happens. It the pan liner makes it through that I will try an alcohol soda can stove. I have reduced my cook pot patterens for the Brass Sheet stuff I have and will cut a cook pot out of it later today. I am sure the Brass will last but it is also going to be heavier.

If the Al pan liner will last for a few boils then your idea for a short hike (couple of days) cook pot should work. The Throw-away cook pot would work well with a really SUL gear list on a hike of up to 3 or so days.

I am playing with a few other shapes to see if they might work better to boil water. It is easy and cheap to make lots of ideas using paper.

I have completed my first Al Flat Fold Cook Pot boil test (12oz of water). I used a full Esbit tablet. I had a boil between 4 and 5 minutes. The Pan Liner Cook Pot looks like it came through the first test boil OK. The Esbit left some black on the bottom and side of the pot. I will see if this will come off. I will next try the cook pot with one of my alcohol soda can stoves.

Aluminum acts like any other non-ferrous metal; it hardens with use and stress, and can be softened, ‘annealed’, by heat. The process of rolling and shaping pan liners and other aluminum foil products acts to harden the material, making it both springier and stiffer.

You can make any aluminum sheet softer – more malleable – by *carefully* heating it under dim light to a dull brown, ‘cherry’ red – or just before that point. Quinch it in water immediately. An alcohol burner is ideal for this job. However, it is very easy to overdo it and burn aluminum. One way to avoid burning the material is to watch the degree to which the varnish added to most aluminum products during manufacture chars. The varnish is on the shiny side of foil as well as flashing, pie pans, oven liners and pan liners. When the varnish is brown going to black, you have probably hit the right temperature range.

Annealing aluminum is the first step when expanding cans to make some stove designs and for precise bending and shaping of aluminum sheet. As you ‘work’ the piece, the aluminum will harden again. If you are doing extensive shaping, you may need to anneal it repeatedly.

Now, can anyone come up with a folding woodbrning stove? Something simple that uses folds instead of hinges. The world is standing with bated breath.

Vick, here is a link from a Post by someone else in another Thread – i think that you might have seen this already

Paul,
Thanks, I asked the question in a couple of places and got the same answer. Gotta try it.

In the past, (mostly on canoe trips) I’ve used a flue pipe stove, but it is way too big and heavy. Also, I don’t like the smoke and soot. I keep my woodburning stuff in a sack, but still….

On the other hand, if the stove is light enough, the fuel savings are attractive. And if you know what you are doing, dry, burnable wood is not hard to find, even in rainy weather – and that is discounting waterproof fuel such as birch bark and pine heart (both of which make a huge black mess). Is it possible to burn this stuff so efficiently that there are no deposits? I know that an enclosed stove is really efficient, but I have never seen one that is not messy.

don’t know about getting no deposits. one key to reducing deposits with most woods is the hotter the better (at least when it comes to reducing deposits). another key, is adequate air (oxygen) to the fire (this is also related to making the fire burn hotter), resulting in more complete combustion of some compounds of the fuel.

Folks have pointed be at a couple of great designs. What I am really fishing for, though is an orgami-style folding stove, or at least something very light and very compact. Although either the blown design or Nimblewell Nomads probably fills the bill.

Thanks, everyone

the only problem I see (conceptually) is that an origami type stove is not likely to be strong enough to hold the weight of a pot full of water… flat side are notoriously weak, the nimblewill cross locks the sides in order to get better strength, risk’s brass shim stove actually uses stakes to support the pot… now… one could possibly make a gassifier stove out of a roll up piece of ss shim combine this with a tiny folding pot… and it could be a great stove and be stable enough to hold it… would have to be narrow and tall to strong enough… hmm….

Hi Joshua & Vick, I see the main problem being something that gets to complicated vs other simple ways to boil water. Several years ago when Risk posted his first wood stove I made one and we exchanged a few ideas. He was using a fan with a home made blade on it and I was using a small computer fan. I suggested he look for something like that and he found his at Radio Shack. I mounted my fan on the side of the stove so it would blow into and around the inside of the stove for better combustion. I wanted to use my wood stove for a little extra heat if it was cool or damp and just to have a small fire. My stove weighed about 7oz not counting the 9 volt battery. When I started using Titanium I thought about replacing all the Aluminum with Titanium.

Making a hybrid/origami style wood stove could be done. I have been playing with some paper models and they would use side supports that are worked into the design and support the weight of the cook pot. I like things simple and easy to set-up under bad weather conditions and this may not fit into that standard.

Bill,
Wow, all you need now is a bearskin rug.

I’m seeing that positive air flow is one of the (many) critical issues. That was certainly the case with my 12″ tall flue stove which uses convection. A fan-blown stove would be lighter and more stable. To the drawing board.

Bill,
Whatch out for heavy metal poisening when using brass – especially eating out of it. It’s not for nothing that key shops have electrostatic precipitators. If you plan to actually use a brass pot, coat the inside with tin — which is the traditional way to make brass and copper pots safe. Tinning a pot is just like the process of soldering: clean bright, heat, flux, heat, apply tin. Art metal and jewelry suppliers sell tin sheets.

Vick: Thanks for the “heads-up” on the Brass.

I get a lot of my metal stuff at a local Hobby Shop. The Hobby Shops sell stuff by a company called K&S Engineering that packages lots of sizes, types, etc, of metal items for folks making their own stuff. I got some Thin Stainless last night (.002 thick – 44 guage) 12″ wide by 30″ long ($11.00). I also got something called Soft Aluminum (.005 thick – 36 guage) 12″ by 30″ long ($6.69). I will try both and see how it folds/unfolds.

Link to K&S Craft Materials

Wow… I gotta go check that out… would have never thought to get metal from them…

Joshua: I get a few things from Hobby Lobby but most comes from the more specialized Hobby Shops. The shops that sell RC models etc. I don’t remember seeing the rolls of metal like I got last night at Hobby Lobby.

Look for “Hobby Town USA” in your phone book or check here:
Link to Hobby Town USA

I know right where an RC type hobby shop is… I’ll check there on my way home… er… not tonight, tomorrow…

Wouldn’t it be great if we had a continually updated catalogue of sources for materials in retail quantities? Searching this forum doesn’t quite do the job. Maybe the powers that be could set up a separate area just for this stuff.

Hey, if multiple votes on this will help make it happen, here’s my YES vote. Dr. Jordan, please see if this can’t be done.

Roy: I have moved your “Insulated Cook Pot” idea over here to another “Cook Pot” Thread.

Roy asked this: I have an idea I want to share with you. The idea is to insulate the sides and lid of a pot to keep heat from escaping while boiling water. Sort of like a permanet pot cozy. I’m thinking this might increase efficency by preventing heat loss thru the pot . Last night I made a primative version out of foil and wire mesh and ran some informal tests. It seemed to shave about 20-30 seconds off boil times. I think if better material are used results might be turn out more positive. What do you think? Anyone?

First a bunch of questions.
1 – How much water were you boiling?
2 – How long did it take to boil your water?
3 – What kind of pot/size/ width and height of pot?
4 – Kind of stove?
5 – How much extra weight are you willing to add to your gear for something like this?

Now why all the questions. There may be a better ___________ fill in the blanks. Type of pot. Type of stove. Etc.

Insulating the pot seems like a good idea. I have one of those old MSR Heat Exchange things. As a potter who sometimes makes my own kilns I have several kinds of kiln building materials on hand. The lightest high temp insulation I use is a ceramic fiber. This looks sort of like wool but is used to replace fire brick. Most of it can take 2500 degrees “F” +. It is very light compaired to brick. I have it in different thickness up to about 4″. It would be easy to peel away a layer 1/2′ thick or so and use that to insulate a cook pot. This stuff will not burn at any temp you would get with a camping stove. I would cover the ceramic fiber with something like Aluminum pan liner material such as I used on my Flat Fold Cook Pot. That would allow you to handle the pot without touching the fiber. You also don’t want it to get it into the water. A lid could be made the same way or with something like Neoprene. The lid is far enough away from any flame that catching on fire should not be a problem.

This is what the ceramic fiber looks like.

First a bunch of questions.
1 – How much water were you boiling? 2 cups/ 16 oz. (tap water at unknown room temperature)
2 – How long did it take to boil your water? With mesh and foil insulation ~4:15, without insulation ~4:35
3 – What kind of pot/size/ width and height of pot? Evernew 1.4 qt non stick- titanium. 3.5 inches (height) x 6.25 inches (diameter)
4 – Kind of stove? ThermoJet Microlight alcohol stove (using Klean Strip S.L.X. for fuel)
5 – How much extra weight are you willing to add to your gear for something like this? As little as possible. no more than say, 2 oz.

The performance of my stove is pretty good as is and I am certainly happy with my setup. I’m just interested to see if there is a way to make it more efficent, to the point where one could carry/use less fuel or have better performance when it is cold out. It could end up to be that insulating the pot would not serve enough purpose to justify the weight, but who knows. The ceramic fiber looks very promising. Where could I buy some?

Thanks

-Roy-

First a bunch of questions.
1 – How much water were you boiling? 2 cups/ 16 oz. (tap water at unknown room temperature)
2 – How long did it take to boil your water? With mesh and foil insulation ~4:15, without insulation ~4:35
3 – What kind of pot/size/ width and height of pot? Evernew 1.4 qt non stick- titanium. 3.5 inches (height) x 6.25 inches (diameter)
4 – Kind of stove? ThermoJet Microlight alcohol stove (using Klean Strip S.L.X. for fuel)
5 – How much extra weight are you willing to add to your gear for something like this? As little as possible. no more than say, 2 oz.

The performance of my stove is pretty good as is and I am certainly happy with my setup. I’m just interested to see if there is a way to make it more efficent, to the point where one could carry/use less fuel or have better performance when it is cold out. It could end up to be that insulating the pot would not serve enough purpose to justify the weight, but who knows. The ceramic fiber looks very promising. Where could I buy some?

Thanks

-Roy-

The ceramic fiber looks very promising. Where could I buy some?
Roy, Where do you live? Or near what big city?

I will try am make something Sunday to get an idea of the weigh question.