Continue with BPL Membership?

Oh come on, surely you don't think I have anything against BPL? I wasn't "whining", as Ben referred to both his and my first posts, but evaluating what the worth, as an ultralight enthusiast, would be to continue with the membership here, since, as a contributing and paying member surely the money I pay should go toward something that brings me some benefit. People have suggested that paying the 20+ dollars is nothing towards helping to keep the BPL business alive, but it's not as if this is a non-profit organization interested in helping me purely out of altruistic desires. It's a business, primarily concerned with making money, and therefore I feel that when I do pay something here it is not a donation, but a payment into something that I, too, will get something out of. If I feel the articles and discounts no longer provide me with the education that I came here primarily for, what reason is there for me to continue paying up?

The main reason is that I really like and love participating in the community here. I've made some friends and sometimes just like gabbing with them for the sheer fun of talking with friends who share the same interests. Thing is, I don't need membership for that. But I also feel that, as someone whose whole way of backpacking and traveling was changed in great part by what I learned here at BPL I would really like to see BPL survive. And that means giving something worth chewing on for the longer term members who need more than the repeated introductions to lightweight packing and such.

The problem with BPL and why these questions come up annually is that so often the articles come around to feeling incomplete and rehashed. I have been receiving the printed magazine Orion Nature Quarterly for over twenty years and have never once felt it didn't provide what I am paying and looking for. But I look at BPL and wonder when the last time was that I read something that helped me learn more and push my boundaries more. Gear comparisons just aren't enough for me, because gear can only do so much. A lot of promises were made by the BPL staff over the change in the online magazine content, but we never saw it. We didn't even get to read the final report on and evaluation of the Arctic 1000 expedition and the gear used. There was a short spurt last year after a similar thread to this one got the ball rolling for a while, but it soon petered out.

I don't think I am unreasonable or unfriendly or rude in the way I voice my expectations of the magazine. I don't think I am acting like a spoiled child either. I am simply voicing my concern about BPL's future and about having at least some of my needs met when paying for membership. I'd like to continue with BPL, but only if I get satisfaction out of it, too, not just newcomers.

.

Miguel,
I have also moved up the learning curve, and view BPL differently now than I did 3-4 years ago. There are fewer "eye-opening" articles and reviews for me now. However, I might be complaining if BPL kept touting the "next best thing since sliced bread" in every article like some other magazines.

Miguel, I have enjoyed your and some of the other regular contributors' inputs. Have you thought about writing some articles yourself and contributing them to BPL?

I think we should have a non-staff contribution section for some of the forum sections. We already do that somewhat for the Trip Reports and of course the other forum categories provide this to some degree. But why don't we have some of the experienced/opinionated (I mean that in a good way) readers share their thoughts with us in the form of a full article with photos? It would provide a wider range of opinions, additional interesting reading for the rest of us, and probably generate lots of discussion. These articles would not have to follow BPL's editorial plan. If you don't you don't like the articles…well just consider them as bonus, so you can't blame BPL for them.

Maybe now is the time for folks that converted to UL a few years ago to start passing along their thoughts. It's not just the cutting edge (<4 lbs.) discussions that provide useful and interesting fodder. There are plenty of people that are just starting up that learning curve that read the articles and would like to learn from the rest of us. I know that there are lots of great articles out there!

Tom

P.S. BPL is the only site I check on a semi-regular basis, and really enjoy it. I have some of the same issues with the print issues, but I can understand BPL striving to do that. Besides, they do ask us our opinions…doesn't mean they have to act on that feedback.

I find myself wondering, from some of the posts here, how folks would feel about a 2 tiered online membership. By that I mean a lower priced tier that corresponds to the current online membership and a second, pricier tier that includes both the online and current print memberships(but hopefully not equal to the sum of the two because printing costs and mailing costs would be eliminated). This would also eliminate delays in receiving the current print content or, at least, put the spotlight on those responsible for content. Comments??

They already have this…

25 for either online or print subscription, or 40 for both

Oops, I overlooked that. Then that would seem to address at least some of the above complaints.

Heh Dave, perhaps my posts are whack and that may possibly relate to scoring hiking partners or not.
The intrinsic value of a bpl membership being debated in an electronic format is a lot like cooking up a batch of chili.
There's more to throwing the ingredients into a pot and turning on the heat, ya need a big wooden spoon to stir stuff up, throw the lid on let the pressure build up for awhile and then give it another stir.
Miguel [sorry to include you] and I are the big wooden spoons trying to get the ingredients to cook down into something edible, and like a good chili there may be some indigestion involved.
And sometime you gotta add some strange ingredients, I've been to more then one cookoff where a little rattlesnake gets tossed in. My grandmother always added a pinch of nutmeg to the potatoes she was cooking, I've never questioned why I just add my own pinch when I cook potatoes.
Sometimes it takes a little weirdness to make a recipe come together.
We have a tendency to get stuck here on these threads, a little push is all it takes to make the difference between 3 posts and 33 posts.
Thanks for your insights everyone.

Remember that just because your subscription expires, you don't stop being a member of the community and you don't lose access to the forums.

I've never read the print magazine, but I understand that this must be where most of the valuable BPL content goes. I didn't subscribe to it because I was annoyed about the (then) intentionally unclear product differentiation. I thought I was saving trees by subscribing to "BackpackingLight Magazine" online, but it turned out that BackpackingLight Magazine was the brand for two totally different magazines. So I voted with my wallet.

I think that BPL is an ostrich with its' head in the sand, trying to ignore the basic fact of modern publishing: content is free, money comes from traffic+community, and traffic+community come from good content. Just ask the Washington Post, the NYT, and all the other publications who dragged their heels as if they could somehow argue with the tide.

BPL could so easily a) please its' users, and b) make a ton of money: put *all* the content online, with no subscription fees. Focus all staff on building the best magazine possible, rather than dividing their time and energies between two publications that both seem to be struggling.

BPL has no competition; it has 100% of its' market. If it would stop trying to reinvent the wheel and start focusing on its' strength, CONTENT, we'd all be better off. And the accountants would have reason to smile too.

(Also: get a wiki.)

Brian, name one subscription magazine doing what you way? None. A magazine isn't the same as a newspaper.

Name one print magazine that's doing well against new media.

The fact is that they're all marching toward the gallows. Newspapers were first, but magazines are on their way. Ask Condé Nast.

Or do you think that quarterly periodicals that come out three times a year are somehow immune to the worldwide shift towards free online content?

Further: BPL is a _web_magazine_ that shifted some of its' content to print, NOT the other way around. Web magazines tried to charge and failed, and the annual "I didn't renew either" threads demonstrate that the same is probably true here. I'm just suggesting that they abandon their attempt at charging people two-times-twice just to get all the content.

They could shift it *all* to print, publish monthly, and charge $25 for it. That's reasonable. But I think that there's more money to be made by shifting it all online. The page views would be huge, the overhead minimal, and furthermore they're connected to a user base that's willing to generate its' *own* content. That's like printing money!

The one thing that doesn't seem to be working in the hearts and minds of those who pay BPL's electric bill is splitting the content into two places and charging for each.

?

To the question:

"Why are we still here?"

That has a pretty simple answer:

Because you value BPL enough to make it a better place.

I ask the same question myself sometimes, and my answer is this:

"Because I value BPL enough to make it a better place."

In other words, this is a work in progress, it's not "done", and I plan to see it through until it's a sustainable and fantastic operation that provides a community experience with real value.

I am crafting a more detailed response to you all about our plans for 2008. We are changing our ownership and management structure and this will have dramatic, positive change for all of us this year.

More soon, in a few days.

Best Regards,
Ryan Jordan
Publisher

While there are quite a few experts on this site, don't forget the newbie – who is transitioning to the light side of backpacking.
This site has been a gold mine for me in the past two years. Techniques, articles gear and the friendly advise I received from members and staff have helped me to transition from heavy packing (65lbs – 3 days) to light packing (25lb-7 days). The next year I will transition to lighter backpacking – <25 lbs.
While its great to be on the cutting edge of the industry – don't forget that there are many of us that appreciate the content and setup of this site – as a resource. It is well worth the membership price. We may not post as much or as loudly as others, but we are out there – reading absorbing and learning.

Thanks,

Dave

I agree with Dave'comments. BPL is the "Science" magazine of backpacking. It has been of overwhelmingly value to me. When I see hikers on the trail with too much gear complaining, I tell them about BPL and describe it like this. It is the best $40 a year (for both online/print) you could spend to subscribe to BPL. It was staffed with Phds or Doctors who have made it with their detailed gear testing articles (eg, carbon monoxide testing articles) the "Science" magazine of backpacking. Beyond that the forum is the most favorite forum of mine. I like the community and tone of this forum better than all others. I don't even know of anything comparable to BPL. The sites I can think of are super distantly a who-cares about that site second (or worse). If by ownership change, it means Ryan is selling the business, I hope it is to an identical twin. My hats off to BPL. Like my subject line says, "bad news travels fast — good news not so fast". If a scientific poll could be taken of the BPL members, I bet overwhelming support would place this site as #1.

Does my comments mean nothing could be improved? No, the idea of having an editorial-staff controlled wiki sounds interesting (by "control" I do not mean only editor-written, only that some approval of the writings has to meet editorial staff approval). The idea of a forum structure where "new posts since last visit" or "last 50 posts" would be able to show the thread owner would be nice too.

Also, some type of rater-indexing of best articles, best postings would be neat — something like a DIGG indexing of anything written (article or forum posting) would be great.

(Added as a p.s. Also, allowing either as a premium membership freebie or tiny surcharge, the ability to upload a larger size gearlist (up to 1000 kb not the current ceiling of 100 kb).(

I also subscribe to BPL's print magazine and find that of equally good value and can well understand how a slippage to print can occur. But because I find BPL so super valuable, it is not enough to make me complain. I used to publish a magazine and can well sympathize with how difficult it is to get things to print.

Yes to each is own. If I really wanted to find hiking buddies I would join one of the numerous clubs in my area.
Most trip reports to me, and I suspect to most Aussies,Kiwis and Brits and other "non Americans", are almost irrelevant; however I am interested to find out what type of gear worked and when.
Maybe the ones that are totally satisfied with the gear they have possibly forget that they somehow had to learn about it in the first place. I really doubt that anyone without any knowledge can walk into a store buy a pile of goods and head for the bush never to set foot inside an outdoor store again.
So once we have bought the wrong sleeping bag, how do we find out which is the right one ?
As a "backyard" tester I also find it strange that anyone would head off with potentially life saving gear without testing it. In fact if I were an outdoor sales person I would stress the importance of trying out the gear in a friendly environment before it is really needed. So if someone shows me a better way of using a particular piece of gear, that being BPL or a forum member, the better off I am.
And that is the reason why I left White Blaze. Great trip reports and ravings about personal achievements but almost no good advice on what gear to use (in the gear forums). Most questions end up with a flood of trolls repeating the same rubbish over and over again.
With what I learned from here and a few other sites, I have the gear that lets me go out 20 to 30 days a year to enjoy nature. I don't do 50 miles in a day, I don't cut my toilet paper in half sheets and I don't pretend to have a great time under a small wet tarp that offers no protection at all. I just go out for fun.
But I do realize that I am a bit strange.
Franco

Gear Forum

The BPL membership is a good value, I believe, if you've already made the decision to lighten up, and now need details about light gear and where to get it – G Spot! It's like you have a virtual know-it-all neighbor that you can tune in or out whenever you want. After a year or so, I think this value diminishes as you reach your weight and performance goals.

Features

The features are usually good to me especially the ones with the in depth research. I would not continue my membership if they became less frequent. If their frequency increased dramatically with no loss of quality, then I'd accept a price increase for the BPL membership.

The Other Forums

Most of the non-gear related forums seem to be more of a filler for bored hikers who are temporarily housebound. These are fun but have minimal value to me. Many free sites offer this service. I would not renew for these.

Hi Roleigh

> If by ownership change, it means Ryan is selling the business, I hope it is to an identical twin.
No, Ryan is NOT selling the business!

BPL needs capital to grow. Ryan is bringing in an equity partner, but Ryan is staying very much in control. He will be able to concentrate on the things he is best at for BPL.

> the idea of having an editorial-staff controlled wiki sounds interesting (by "control" I do not mean only editor-written, only that some approval of the writings has to meet editorial staff approval).
All I can say at this stage is 'stay tuned' ;-)

Cheers
Roger Caffin

The success of a usergroup-type website depends upon the diversity and experience of the members who post reports that provide a slice of heaven on earth that would be difficult for the others to experience otherwise. One such successful site is http:www.advrider.com. Everything about this site is very positive for the membership which has grown steadily for many years. It's focused solely on sharing experience and knowledge of riding adventure motorcycles (Shawn's point).
Their website has 100s of key people all over the world who write well which attracts others who write well because it's worth their time to read/participate.
I'm too new this site to give a fair grade, but it seems like Shawn and others may be correct in their assessment of shortcomings. I'm sure Ryan and staff can handle the constructive criticism and I hope they keep this aspect of the "changes" high on their prioirty list.
Craig

As an incurable packrat (cough, cough 'collector') I still have the earliest issues of Backpacker Magazine. BPL Magazine is the closet to the original I've seen. I'll stick around as I value the information. With the online, it's print to PDF (love that about Macs) and into a the appropriate folder (backed up on a separate drive of course). So I'll renew for both.

Plans this year. A 30km (~20 mile) day hike to see if the hip will take it. If so then I can start planning longer trips. Nothing worse than a bum joint but going Light or Ultralight may just get me back in.

Have a good year everyone,
Iain

My membership is due on Feb 8 so I added the magazine too.
It's the best in town at what it does and if BPL isn't perfect, neither am I.

I use to post pretty regularly on White Blaze and donated also. This year I am not, and rarely go on much anymore.

I gained a lot of information from that site when I was a newbie and especially on the hammock forums.

I also donate to my Disney Pin collectors site…so what I am saying is this.

If I gain information and learn from what is offered it is worth it for me to donate. I just like to have the choice of when and how much I want to donate.

Saying that though I am finally paying the membership here today…because NOTHING is more irritating then goggling something and think you are about to find your answer…but instead you get a big red M….grrrrrrr
:D