A warning on REI Carbon Poles

I'm glad Hoosierdaddy was able to stop his fall! The pole did its duty and died very bravely.

As he dumped me off at my truck I saw his taillights tearing off for REI. He was pretty shocked to see his pole in half I have to tell you. (They were the ones he had on the PCT trip btw)

The joint area is always the weakest part of any poles, IMO. I doubt it was the cold specifically, but would guess previous micro damage/wear to the joint area and then catastrophic failure when he caught himself. The pole likely went several inches into the snow putting more than usual pressure on the joint.

I've had an aluminum Black Diamond pole do the same. Was he using snow baskets to potentially keep the tip from going very deep into the snow?

He had the right baskets on. When he went to REI last night it turned out the guy working had a friend whose same poles had snapped the same way up in Alaska this year-in the cold.
It wasn't at the joint, but up higher. It was like breaking a stick in half, with the shattering, etc. In a way it was like when you see a tree explode in severe cold in alpine.

Probably more due to off axis stress than temperature.

Thanks for posting this Sarah. I've attacehd a link to a photo of the broken pole: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/hoosierdaddy810/Reflection%20Lakes/ReflectionLakessnowshoe027.jpg

I plunged the pole fairly deeply into the snow and probably continued sliding slightly forward while attempting to hold my weight with the pole planted. As you can see the break was not at a locking mechanism, however it probably was where the next pole section ended inside the lower section just below the lock, thus the weak spot. Maybe just simple leverage caused the break?

What was odd is that last summer (in the heat) I've fallen with my entire weight on one of these poles while they were suspended between two rocks with not so much as a whimper from them. (Unless, as mentioned there could have been hairline cracks made then…)

One of my Peak UL Compacts broke too. Strangely, the break was in the section of the lower part that lives inside the mid section. I thought it was the tightener had broken but when I brought it back to REI they showed me where there is a thinner solid piece at the top of the tube and that is what broke. He also pointed to a bin of broken poles – most were Peak ULs. I bought another pair but am much more careful with them now.

I had someone give me a pair of brand new REI carbon poles for parts– one had snapped off clean where the expansion nut attaches.

Carbon fiber is typically bound with epoxy. Its strength and lightness comes from squeezing as much of the epoxy out of the layup as possible. Fiberglass is worked much the same way, but usually with polyester resin rather than epoxy. Whatever the binding agent, the drier the layup, the lighter it is and it tends to be stronger too– thick layers of binder just crack. I can imagine that quality control is a tough job in making slender tapered tubes of carbon fiber and gobblety-goop resins and then attaching metal and plastic fittings to them. Take your basic 180 pound male and lean on it in the cold and you'll find the weak parts!

Metals and plastics get more brittle in the cold. I would also guess that carbon fiber is weakened when scratched. In metals this is called "etch sensitive" — a scratch (or stamped numerals) or a rough area creates a weak point in the matrix of the metal and that where things come apart under stress. It's entirely possible for that to happen with plastic too.

Time to march 'em right back to REI for replacement or credit for another model! I use Black Diamond aluminum poles and put up with the extra weight.

Hello All,

I know REI will probably replace the pole but for those of you who bought one elsewhere check out the link below. I believe that the REI Peak poles are made by Komperdell (C3 model). I broke one of my C3’s last year when I fell over a log and was able to get a replacement section at Albionsmo. Nice folks and reasonable price and I have no association with them other than customer.

-Mark

I will say that I am glad I have Ti poles – HD's carbon poles do weigh less, but…..
And they are prettier too ;-) Girlie baby blue with purty flowers (Don't think HD wants that!)

The REI Peak UL adjustable poles are indeed the Komperdell C3 with an REI label as are Eastern Mountain Sports carbon poles. I have been using a pair (with the EMS label) for years now and I definitely have stress tested them often with no failures. I do a lot of hiking in the granite boulder strewn trails of the White Mountains in NH where, inadvertanly sticking the pole between boulders as I use the pole to regain balance is putting exactly the type of stress that should cause failure of the pole.

Bottom line, I've been very please with the performance to weight ratio of these poles.

Of course, there are those Ti Goat adjustables that weigh even less …… only the non-ergonomic handles and lack of straps keeps me from pulling the trigger. Just my supposition but, anything weighing that little, probably has it's own durability limitations, too.

Michael:

Until I "graduated" from the above-mentioned REI UL Compact CF poles to the Titanium Goat adjustable CF poles, I had always used pole straps — and having something to rest my wrist was an important criterion.

Seduced by Ti Goat poles' super light weight, I gave them a try — and by the second trip (approx. 50 miles in 4 days) — I realized I neither needed nor missed the straps! YMMV. But in any case, Ti Goat adjustable poles now come with removable straps — although nothing as beefy as the REI ones. You may wish to give them a try.

Separately, until the laws of physics are broken, a pair of CF poles that weighs just half of another is going to be less robust. But are the Ti Goat poles robust enough? To me, they are. But if a heavy-set person scrambling up or down boulders should suddenly and totally lean on one at a "weird" angle to break a fall — I can certainly imagine the pole snap. But to different degrees, that can happen to much heavier aluminum poles as well.

Like with tents, bags, clothing — I think pole selection is another one of the few areas where shorter / lighter weight folks have the advantage.

Hello all,

Being the trekking pole editor here at BackpackingLight, I've tested many, many poles. And I consider it part of my job to test poles to their limits so that you, the readers, will get the most accurate information possible from our reviews.

I have broken several poles. These have included EMS aluminum poles (made by Komperdell), Leki aluminum ski poles, Gossamer Gear Lightrek 1s, prototyle Gossamer Gear break down poles (which never made it to market), Alpkit carbon poles, and Leki Ultralight "Ti" poles (which are really just aluminum".

I have definitely broken carbon poles in cold weather but I also snapped that Leki "ti" pole in the snow as well. Despite the occasional break, I don't have any indication that carbon is actually more breakable in the winter.

I've used nothing by carbon poles for a few years now and I regularly agressively snowshoe in sub-freezing conditions. I also hike very agressively and take big jumps when testing poles. For the failures I've experienced, most were from falls. This is also true of the huge pile of poles that have been in our reviewers' hands.

The early Gossamer Gear poles were fragile but this is no longer the case, as least according to my testing of 4 different models and prototypes beyond the first generation.

Now, I can tell you that small cuts in carbon fiber can lead to failure. When digging out an Alpkit pole that was frozen in snow from being used as a tent stake, I accidentally hit the side of the pole with an aluminum snow shovel. It pretty much snapped. This is where carbon fiber is weaker- sharp hits on the side and from lateral stress focused on one place (such as being placed in a hole with force applied). These situations can lead carbon to break, rather than bending, which aluminum can tend to do prior to breaking.

But I've been abnormally hard on Komperdell C3 poles (same as the REI models list above) as well as Komperdell C2, Komperdell Featherlight, Komperdell Nature Carbon, and a whole host of carbon poles from Exped, MSR (also Komperdell made), Leki, Gossamer Gear, Bozeman Mountain Works, Black Diamond and PacerPole with no issues.

My point is that failures will occur but it may be a mistake to assume that a product is faulty because of some rare reported failures.

I'm really hard on my C3s and have had nothing but good luck. These are very popular poles and therefore, there will be more stories about failures. And these are also really light poles and will have more failures than, say, a pair of clunky aluminum poles.

But make the choice that is best for you. If a product failure is enough to change your mind on a product, that's fine. For me, I'll keep using my Komperdell C3s this winter, I'll push them hard, and I'll probably have another season of nothing but good reports.

Happy hiking!

Doug

>only the non-ergonomic handles and lack of straps keeps me from pulling the trigger

I can't find the post, but I swear I have read that they'll add straps upon request.

Not to hijack the thread too much, but re. Ti Goat poles, they do sell pole straps. I have a pair. Just contact Titanium Goat if you have any questions.

As well as the straps, which I think are great, TiGoat also has a camera mount which can be attached to the top of one pole. The camera mount cannot be used in conjunction with the straps, though. Great CF poles.

Doug's experience with the C3's pretty much mirrors mine with the REI Peak Ultralight's. I've had issues with the locking mechanism, but the poles have proved bomber in the field, year around, under some pretty severe stress. Nothing is foolproof, or unbreakable, but on the whole I'll take the weight savings day in and day out and risk the remote possibility of a break. I think it probably helps, as Ben mentioned, to be a lightweight in this case; I weigh 138 on a humid day. And maybe be a little more cautious in sub freezing weather.

Yes- I'm sure weight could be a factor. I weigh 180 but a friend that is 225 finds the C3s to be a little too flexy. So I've got him set up with a pair of Komperdell Featherlights for fixie and some old Exped Carbons in collapsible. Both are a bit stiffer than the C3 poles (aka REI carbon).

I'm sure the change of breakage goes up with increased body weight, heavier packs, and placement choices.

HD isn't heavy by any means. For an old codger he is in great shape. Now if he had broken them after he ate the "heart attack hamburger platter" he had after our trip then I might wonder…….

And not to pick bones over weight+breakage, but that isn't a truth-ism. My husband is 6'4" and not a small man. He doesn't break gear very often (honestly? In 5 years I cannot think of anything he has broken on the trail).

Sarah:

I can't believe you called Hoosierdaddy an old codger — and right before Christmas! Don't be expecting a lot from Santa this year! :)

"Santa" already gave me my gift :-D So I can be naughty! Hehheh!!

Absolutely Sarah- I'm not calling anyone heavy!!!!

And you're right too that being a big person doesn't make you hard on gear. I'm pretty mid sized but you should see how much stuff I break!

Still, size can be a factor, even if it wasn't in this case.

Happy holidays!
Doug

"For an old codger he is in great shape."

Watch it there young whippersnapper or I'll whack you with my carbon fiber walker! (Hopefully that won't snap also!)