gear problems, when to move on

"At what point do you move on from a piece of equipment that has failed you?" With what you've described, immediately. Reliability is very important to me though, especially in a scenario where it may be required to melt snow.

#ERROR!

Fail me once, I'm unlucky; fail me twice, I'm finding a new model.

I've used Soto Windmaster with regulator which has worked flawlessly. Maybe it's not that it's a regulator, just that MSR reactor stove has problems. The regulator offers a little advantage. Particularly if it's cold and the canister is mostly empty, with a needle valve, after a minute of running the canister pressure goes down so the flame goes down. No big deal, you just turn the needle valve up. But, this is a bit of an annoyance. With the needle valve, I'll notice it's gone way down and go "oh shoot" after wasting a minute of time. With regulator, it just works. I don't know that a regulator is an important buying decision, but Soto stoves are good and the regulator offers a small advantage. Regulator and needle valve have the same lower temperature limit they'll work at.

>>fail me twice, I'm finding a new model. +1 Or as I like to say, "Two Strikes, You're Out" HOWEVER, keep in mind that sometimes repeated failures can be attributed to user error. Not saying that's the case here, but, just as an example, 1 itsy-bitsy, micro-nano speck of schmutz can get into the jet through the bottom and completely shut down a stove. This is when it's handy to have a user-serviceable stove and the knowledge and tools to do a field repair.

I have the Soto ODR1 and my experience with it mirrors Jerry's. But for full disclosure, I normally boil/cook with Esbit so it doesn't see a lot of use but I do take it out a couple times per year and have put it through its paces in Ft. Backyard to measure fuel consumption in a variety of conditions. The regulator keeps the flame pattern consistent all the way up to the last few seconds before the canister is depleted. By no means is this a necessary feature but I like being able to set the flame and not fiddle with it. At any rate, I've been happy with this stove for a few years now and don't have any reliability concerns with it that would make me want to steer people away from regulator stoves in general. There's obviously a problem with yours but it sounds like an MSR issue more than anything else.

With Scouts, I wonder if dirt is problem. Get the kids to keep the cap on the fuel canister between uses. To answer your question, +1 on 2 strikes you're out on something like a stove. I would look for good basic designs.

Yeah, I found that dirt was indeed a problem with needle valves and, I assume, regulators, also. Often, you will have dirt/grime/carbon/etc, or, a spec of metal from manufacturing in the canister/Lindal valve itself. Maybe it comes from the canister crimping process. Not exactly sure… Anyway a small piece of filter paper set just above the valve actuator will filter that stuff before it becomes a problem. I wrote up a short article describing this a little while ago for BPL/Roger. Wipe the valves down before assembly. I just use my bandanna with a drop of olive oil on it to break any static…important in cold weather. It also lubes the threads somewhat, as a side effect. I am guessing that the lack of a glow means the heat output is lower. You really cannot simmer on a reactor. If it is not glowing, then it is not getting the full heat from the fuel. Yes, it will still work, just a little slower. Anyway, there are two possible sources for dirt: the stove and the fuel. I discussed the fuel canister already. But the same can happen to the stove. If the pin gets dirty or picks up some small bits of dirt, it is easily transferred inside to the regulator/valve and jet where it will plug things up. You might get a couple from the manufacturer than has some swarf in it, but 2 out of 5 or a 40% failure rate is a LOT…at least in this sample. If you want to dink around with one of them you can try the filter both at the jet and canister after cleaning stuff up a bit. But I think that I would look at a different stove. Even one failure out in the bush means something was not reliable enough for me. I need stuff to work. I do NOT carry redundant gear. One stove means cooking and/or boiling water over an open fire, if it does not work. Or, eating cold food and drinking cold stuff. This gets old, quickly. I want my gear to work. Else, I would not have bought it in the first place.

Thanks for the feedback. I bought the reactors (s) in spite of the regulator. I've looked at doing a hack and might still. We were able to disassemble the other pats in the field. I think the failure to glow problem is fairly common with those stoves and MSR's recommended solution is to "tap it on a rock or something". Dirt may have been a culprit but there is no evidence of that and I believe MSR's policy is to simply replace as opposed to diagnosing.The fuel we used at Philmont was not my normal jetboil or msr brand. It was some generic isobutane and I believe the conventional wisdom is that the different brands all come off the same line in Korea. The upside of the Reactor, when all is right, is there performance in nasty weather. We have used them in conditions where the rest of our group couldn't use their stoves, including the Soto. I have other stoves so maybe it's time to hack them or sell them.

> It was some generic isobutane and I believe the conventional wisdom is that the > different brands all come off the same line in Korea. That USED to be the case, but not any more. Some Western vendors have subcontracted their canisters out to China, and some Chinese filling plants do not bother to filter out the dust in the raw fuel. You can get all sorts of stuff in there. I have seen a remote inverted canister stove block up within 10 – 15 seconds of connection with a new Chinese canister – several times running. Stripping the stove down each time showed lots of fresh dust blocking up the supply line. I took the canisters (several) back to the shop and demanded a refund. I must have looked a bit angry: they hastily shoved the money into my hands. Cheers

Is there another MSR model you'd consider (maybe a wind pro? ) I'd think they'd see the wisdom in sending you a different model after multiple replacements.

Since the Reactor burner uses specific Reactor pots it would complicate MSR replacing with a different unit. They probably wouldn't anyway as many consumers abuse return policies. I have a Windpro and a few other stoves so that isn't a problem, but I will miss the poor weather performance of the Reactor. I think maybe hacking the regulator to force it to be permanently open might be the ticket.

Can't you have a stove with a good windscreen work as good as a Reactor in the wind? Especially, if it has piezo ignition because you can light it with windscreen in place. Typically, with a separate lighter, you have to remove the windscreen to light it, and it can blow out by the time you get the windscreen in place. Although you could probably get it lit, maybe after several attempts, unless it's the most extreme conditions.

Our "typical" camp is at 6-8000ft, piezo ignition isn't terribly reliable at altitude. At least that is my experience. We have been in some pretty nasty weather in the Sierra where a windscreen would be blown away and never seen again. If it was just my son and I we could manage inside a tent safely and carefully. Since we often camp with boy scouts who don't fully comprehend how to bend safety rules and still be ok it isn't a viable option. My relationship with the Reactor system is a real love hate thing. It has worked when nobody else's stove would, and it it has failed me in very mild conditions. I think it is going away because cold coffee sucks.