Cold Female sleeper needs warmer bag for all seasons! WM Versalite or Antelope?

WM makes GREAT bags but unless you plan to wear lots of puffy clothing inside I wouldn't recommend the Versalite nor Antalope for someone your size as both are larger 62" girth bags. I might recommend a more narrow cut bag such as the Marmot Xenon with 25+ oz of fill or a narrower FF 0* bag like the Murre with about the same amount of fill or a Mountain Hardwear Phantom 0 which is fairly narrow. For reference the Xenon is EN rated at 19* for the average female and 6.3* for the average male so it is more in line with what is marketed as a 0* bag. A large bag will have a lot of space for someone your size to heat up and I don't think WM offers a bag past 20* in their narrower cut.

Annie, The insulation below you makes a huge difference. I have an Exped Synmat UL which has an R value of around 3.3 I think. When the temps get into the 40's I start to feel cold seeping through the pad. So if I know the temps are going to be in the 40's or below at night, I switch to my Downmat UL, which has a much higher R value and feels noticeably warmer. If you have a neo air (do you have the x-lite?) you can augment it with a closed cell foam pad as others have mentioned. Some place the closed cell foam under the air pad and some over…experiment and see what works for you. Get a warm pad setup….I'd say R value of at least 5 or so. If you are still cold, now you can augment your upper insulation by either getting a warmer bag or an overquilt, or a down jacket/pants/booties.

I just saw how you use your VBL…I don't think you would need one for trips to the Sierra with lows in the 20s. I would ditch the VBL. As Don Selesky mentioned you're using it incorrectly as well.

Just to be clear, on the VBL, I do wear it over a base layer. It rests between my clothing and my bag. I have tried it outside of my bag and that made my sleeping bag wet so I didn't do that again. I definitely don't wear too much clothing; I have tested less and more and more always keeps me warmer.

It sounds like you're going in the right direction, you just need more insulation. As others have mentioned, at cold temperatures what's under you is at least as important as what's over you. If you use any kind of inflatable pad, back it up with a closed cell foam pad. Otherwise, try getting a quilt you can add either over or inside your current bag. You don't need to toss what you already have. And good luck.

Thanks! Great suggestion. Don, were you suggesting to not use a closed sack VBL and use just a sheet of it above me and in that way I would get less wet from trapped moisture? I will investigate the other bags mentioned in the thread and beef up the R factor under me.

The VBL needs to block any air current that can reach the outside. It should be used close to your body, over a base layer. Generally, as the air warms up and the humidity rises, you'll automatically perspire less, as you body is up against warm moist air. Put insulation over the VBL, laying clothing and/or another quilt over you. FWIW, I generally use a VBL shirt rather than a sack. That way I can layer clothing over it without my insulation getting wet. You might want to check out Stephenson's Warmlite for a shirt.

The zpacks is a hoodless bag, right? How much are you insulating your head? I find that insulating your head does a lot. I recommend wearing a hooded down jacket or separate down jacket and a beanie underneath and a buff over your face. +1 to the warmer pad. I have a neoair xtherm and it was pricey but totally worth it. I'm a cold sleeper too and with the xtherm I can finally bring my western mountaineering summerlite down to freezing while wearing my montbell mirage down jacket. If you sleep cold then you probably get cold around camp. I recommend getting a very puffy down jacket that you can use in your sleeping bag. That will make sure you are warm before you go to bed (important) and gives you an extra insulation adjustment. I take will often wake up in the night to take my puffy off or put it on. I have a montbell mirage with 5.3 ounces of down, only weighs 12.3 ounces.

I don't see where you've answered which NeoAir you have. There are several different versions. Regardless, if you compare EN ratings, a 10F bag for a man is a 22F bag for a woman. You may well be undergunned with your ZPacks, but I wouldn't even look at alternatives until you've tried a 5+ r-value pad with it. You may be surprised at the difference it makes. Before switching to quilts, I mostly used a 40F bag, as I sleep exceptionally warm. I've used it in the 20s with midweight baselayers many times, and even managed to sleep when the temps dropped into the teens once. The one time I was not able to sleep in it was at 38F with an uninsulated air mattress.

Hi! So my neo air is bright yellow, narrow, and it is from 2011. Just the "neoair" model.

The current yellow Neoair is the Xlite, with an R value of 3.2. The Neoair Xtherm, which is their winter pad, has an R value of 5.7. It sounds like your pad is the problem. Perhaps putting a RidgeRest or other closed cell foam pad over the Neoair might help?

Hey all! I just re-read your commentary as REI is having a sale so I am going to take advantage of it and buy the xtherm. I am coming to discover that sometimes the lightest gear isn't the best for certain basic needs and on the trail, sleeping well is essential. Justin, my puffy jacket is the mountain hardware, ghost whisperer. I read you recommend the montBell Mirage Parka – again, I purchased the moutain hardware ghost whisperer based on it's light weight reviews, but in retrospect, I might need a warmer, ie., heavier jacket. I am dreaming of hiking the PCT in 2017 and want to get all my ducks in a row beforehand. Of course, anything I buy now will be out of date and some new ultra ultra light super invention will be available and I will be wishing I had that instead. oh well. One day at a time.

That mat should keep you warmer. By the way, I would really encourage you to experiment on going without the Vapor Barrier Liner. Go without it for a few trips to see how you do. Some people swear by them. Others do not like them at all. If you find that you like it, then keep it; if not, get rid of it. I would guess that the vast majority of people who thru hike the PCT (as you are planning) do not use them. Also, take a look at Chris Townsend's Backpacker's handbook: http://www.amazon.com/The-Backpackers-Handbook-4th-Edition/dp/007175489X You can also read Andrew Skurka's hiking book which is good also. The Townsend book is more comprehensive though. They both discuss VBL's.

It sounds like, from reading all this, you are sleeping about 25-30 degrees colder than the bag rating. That's where I'd start. A warmer pad will make a difference – let's guess that helps you by 10 degrees. So now you are 15-20 degrees below the rating. Going by that, for 20 degree temps you want a 0 degree rated bag. That would be my guess. A Versalite is rated to 10, so I'd guess not quite warm enough for you. But an overfilled Versalite might do the deed. An Antelope is rated to 5; but if you look at the specs the two bags are the same size and the Antelope has 6 oz. more down – like 30% more. I'm betting that gets you more than the 5 degrees difference they state.. Her's the thing – whichever WM bag you get, if it turns out to be either too warm for you or too cold, you will have very little trouble selling it on the gear swap so you can get the other, since the bags have such a good reputation. So you won't be stuck with a bag that's not right for you – you'll just be out maybe 10-20% of the price if you had to sell.

I used to think I was a cold sleeper then beefed up my sleeping pad. Going from sleeping on the ground directly with a 10dF bag I shivered at 30dF. Going to just a thermarest ridgerest I was warm enough in thick fleece and a light down sweater in the same temps. I was amazed at how much warmer a good pad makes you feel.