Anyone use bromelain instead of Vitamin I?

[Ryan Smith]

I've always enjoyed pushing for fast days while hiking, but just recently also began doing some running. Always hated it! Now I love it. Obviously running is bit harder on the joints so I'm looking at ways to manage some inflammation in my knees. Seems like more and more articles come out each day that disparage Ibuprofen's good name so I've been looking for alternatives. Rewind to a few years ago when my wife had a tummy tuck. The surgeon put her on bromelain for the six weeks up to surgery to control inflammation & swelling. It's a derivative of pineapple. Who knows how it compares to Ibuprofen, but some internet research indicates it works well. Anyone ever use it? Thoughts? https://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/bromelain Ryan

[Michael Gunderloy]

Haven't tried bromelain but I have had some success with serrapeptase and SAMe. Doing one-month-on, one-month-off trials on myself, recording pain levels daily, both seem to have a mild positive effect on my knee pain. I've also religiously avoided reading any research on them lest I spoil the placebo effect.

[Andrew U]

I'm a runner and have found good success using turmeric, among other things, to replace pharmaceuticals for helping with pain and inflammation. I cook with turmeric and occasionally make tea; I don't know how effective turmeric supplements would be, but would obviously be easier to take on trail. I'm all about homeopathy these days, but I don't completely reject modern medicine. If you only take minimal dosages of Ibuprofen when you are on trail and don't rely on it or other pain killers at home full time, then taking a few pills for a couple days won't kill you. Provided you are otherwise a reasonably healthy person. Everything in moderation. =)

[Dave G]

Andrew, Turmeric is nothing to do with Homeopathy, it has some scientific evidence in it's favour :P Dave

[Pedestrian]

Turmeric has some anti-inflammatory properties (as well as being a mild antimicrobial). It has been used for almost 4000 years in South and Southeast Asia in cooking and in traditional medicine systems. Turmeric has NOTHING to do with Homeopathy. From Wikipedia: "Homeopathy is a system of alternative medicine created in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann….." "The preparations are manufactured using a process of homeopathic dilution, which involves repeatedly diluting a chosen substance in alcohol or distilled water" Homeopathy is also considered quackery given it's pseudo-scientific beliefs and practices. YMMV.

[Ralph Burgess]

Yup, in my experience, many people don't know what homeopathy really means, and assume that perhaps it encompasses herbal remedies or some such thing. As you've quoted, the first four paragraphs of the Wikipedia article give a succinct summary, and explain why homeopathy is greeted with derision by anyone who prefers not to apply the prinicple of "moderation in everything" to their critical thinking skills.

[Cayenne Redmonk]

I have a supplier of homeopathy grade water. Water has a memory, so it's important to start with homeopathy grade product. Too many agents of homeopathy use RO water, which tastes clean, but makes a treatment that's sadly full of bad memories. Most water on the planet has existed for a long time. It has memories of soaking up fluids from radiator and oil leaks in the roads, and also from time spent in the sewers, fields, ponds, lakes, and streams. Only by fusing pure elemental hydrogen with freshly prepared oxygen can one be certain the water will have no memory before starting to prepare a treatment. It's not the ingredients that heal, it's the waters memory of the ingredients after a massive series of dilutions.

[Jennifer Mitol]

seriously?

[Ryan Smith]

Thanks for the responses so far. I have seen turmeric here and there in my search, but had not done much research on it yet. I ordered some bromelain last night and will report back with findings. Any other recommendations or feedback is welcome. Also, lets please keep this thread on track. Homeopathy and water memory(wtf?)are interesting I'm sure, but please start a thread in the Philosophy sub forum. : ) Thx Ryan

[Andrew U]

You guys are right. My bad. I routinely use homeopathy as a catchall term when referring to traditional herbal remedies and the like. I shall now mend my ways. =) Either way, turmeric is a scientifically validated substance for treating a whole host of ailments. I can't recommend it enough. Food will always be the best medicine.

[Ralph Burgess]

You've corrected your first misconception – you're "all about" something, when you didn't even know what it is? But you then persist with wildly exaggerated claims that really don't help anyone. "turmeric is a scientifically validated substance for treating a whole host of ailments" No, it's not. Here is an assessment of current evidence: https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/662.html In summary: it probably has anti-inflammatory properties. It's an interesting candidate to treat numerous conditions, and there seem to be many preliminary studies afoot, but there is no clear evidence yet. "Food will always be the best medicine." That's not even wrong. "I don't completely reject modern medicine." Modern medicine is relieved, it was feeling a little insecure.

[d k]

I think Willie is seriously yanking someone's chain.

[Ralph Burgess]

Poe's Law?

[Jeremy and Angela]

Poe's Law? Precisely. -J

[Cayenne Redmonk]

Ibuprofen is basically a modified propionic acid. Propionic acid is naturally occurring. Heroin is basically a acetylated poppy extract. Poppies occur naturally.

[Andrew U]

I was simply sharing my experiences and personal research into herbal treatments of inflammation and pain management. I'm sorry if you have an issue with my choice of words. I acknowledged that they could have been better. No need to go all internet-attacky on me. The OP expressed interest in anti inflammatory medications other than Ibuprofen, and I took that to mean he was interested in effective medicines with less negative side effects. A link to the positive effects of turmeric and curcuminoids: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2637808/ Again, my bad for misusing the term "homeopathy." I am truly a despicable person. I will flog myself accordingly for this most heinous of crimes.

[Jerry Adams]

actually Willie's full of S you don't fuse hydrogen and oxygen to make water you just put them into the same volume and they will violently combine to make water maybe that water would remember the violent reaction? Poe's law… interesting… you mean I can say something satirically and I don't have to put a smiley?

[Ralph Burgess]

You seem to want to pass off wrong and misleading information as a poor "choice of words", as though people who criticized you are just being nitpicky. Perhaps you've misunderstood that those who reacted to your use of the word "homeopathy" are making POSITIVE statements about the potential for turmeric? (Homeopathy, on the other hand, is a specific pseudoscientific practice with a long history that has as much merit and potential for future research as drowning witches. It's not a good thing to be associated with – it's likely to get the same reaction as describing Neil de Grasse Tyson as an astrologer.) When you went on to disparage "modern medicine" — well, I hope you can understand that along with your mistaken promotion of homeopathy, this rather supported people's impression that you count yourself among the many purveyors of evidence-free woo in the "alternative medicine" community. To return to turmeric, from the abstract that you cited – "turmeric exhibits anti-inflammatory activity… due to curcumin… The process of inflammation has been shown to play a major role in most chronic illnesses… In the current review, we provide evidence for the POTENTIAL role of curcumin in the prevention and treatment of various pro-inflammatory chronic diseases. These features, combined with the pharmacological safety and negligible cost, render curcumin AN ATTRACTIVE AGENT TO EXPLORE FURTHER." (my emphasis) That's pretty much what I wrote above. This review does not say, as you claimed, that it's "a scientifically validated substance for treating a whole host of ailments". I'm not doubting your intent or questioning your sincerity – but there's so much nonsense and disinformation spread by the promoters of "alternative medicine" that you really need to be careful to distance yourself from that stuff if you want to be taken seriously. I don't think it's helpful to make exaggerated and unsupported claims about something that has genuine potential to become a part of evidence-based medicine.

[Andrew U]

You are right. There are no absolute, infallible large scale medical studies proving or disproving the merits of turmeric as an anti-inflammatory. Just studies that are "showing potential" and several centuries of anecdotal evidence. Nothing concrete by any means. It will simply remain a yummy spice for food, and for me, a curiously effective placebo.

[Kattt]

I have also read about the anti inflammatory properties of Turmeric. No, it has nothing to do with homeopathy and neither does aspirin. @Andrew, one of our most intrepid backpackers here on BPL uses it regularly with good results. Worth a try.

[Kattt]

Digitalis, quinine, ephedrine,…..Not just for the herbalists.

[Anonymous]

"I have also read about the anti inflammatory properties of Turmeric. No, it has nothing to do with homeopathy and neither does aspirin." Indians of the South Asian variety have been using it for millennia for a variety of ailments, amongst them inflammation. That would indicate to me that it is at least worth a try. A lot of modern drugs have been derived from herbs initially, and later synthesized. They are not to be dismissed out of hand, IMO. Contempt before examination…. I will be interested to see what further research turns up, if the makers of Ibuprofen don't manage to squelch the funding through the usual channels in that swamp inside the Beltway. In the meantime, it will remain an integral part of my diet, which is infused with a South Asian sensibility by marriage. :0)

[Jerry Adams]

No money to be made selling turmeric for inflamation so there will be no studies If they could isolate something from turmeric that can be synthesized and sold for a profit, then they could study that

[Anonymous]

"If they could isolate something from turmeric that can be synthesized and sold for a profit, then they could study that" The wording of the cited studies indicate that they have isolated at least some of the active ingredients. This is a base from which to proceed with studies to determine their efficacy, or lack thereof. No need to synthesize quite yet. If the active chemical compounds are found to be effective in treating inflammation, there would be two commercial pathways, synthesize and grow turmeric commercially for extraction. I'd guess both would have their advocates.

[Allen C]

Woah, I haven't seen this much heated discussion on BPL since the winter doldrums. Must be all the smoke keeping everyone cooped up inside. I know I'm going a bit stir crazy waiting for the air quality to improve…

[Author]

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