Lightest 20F Synthetic Bag?

[Billy Ray]

Hoping someone who has already researched this can save me some time:

What is the lightest 20F rated synthetic sleeping bag please?

thank you,

billy

[Justin Baker]

Lightest is going to be a quilt.

Mountain Hardwear makes some good, reasonably warm for the weight synthetic bags. You should give them a look.

[Jameson Tisch]

Probably an Enlightened Equipment Prodigy at just under 2lbs.

[Hudson Farris]

I think it depends if you want to go the bag or quilt route. From what I've seen, mountain hardware, like already mentioned, has there hyperLamina Flame 20 bag which comes in at 2 lb 10 oz. These are full featured bags though, much different than a quilt from the likes of enlightened equipment. Im sure there are some others but Ive heard and read some good things about MH's Lamina series bags. Me, id much rather where a down hoodie and carry a quilt then the extra weight from a bag.

[Billy Ray]

I'm really NOT into quilts. I roll a LOT at night and it sucks in cold air.

So, please, if you want to help me find a light weight synthetic bag it would be great to hear your suggestions.

thanks,

Billy

[Billy Ray]

Changed the subject to match my request.

thanks,

billy

[Dondo .]

OK, billy, as long as you accept that we're both going rogue by discussing 20F synthetic bags on BPL.

If I were buying today, I'd go with the Mountain Hardware Hyperlamina Flame. EN lower limit–21F, weight 42 oz. I think I'd like the center zip because I'm a rolling-around side sleeper. $240 is a lot to pay for a synthetic bag, so I'd ease the sting a bit by taking advantage of a sale like the one going on at Campsaver right now.

The TNF Cats Meow is another good choice. EN lower limit–20F, weight 43 oz. You can often get a good deal on these by buying last year's model. I picked one up new a few years ago for $120. The clmashield prism used in that version has done a good job holding it's loft.

Of course, TNF is an uncool brand among "outdoorsmen" and often sends internet commentators into spasms of irrational, frothing rage. If you're one of these guys, please ignore my last suggestion.

But something tells me that you're not.

edited for spelling

[Billy Ray]

Dondo… uncool and rogue… that's me! If you got it, flaunt it!!!

I actually have a TNF Cats Meow… was hoping for something lighter.

I do note that REI sells their synthetic Lumen bag with advertised weight of 2 lb 8oz (40oz) for regular length. If this is correct it would seem to be lighter than either the Mountain Hardware Hyperlamina Flame or the Cat's Meow.

Still, I was hoping the synthetic bag technology had improved to the point that there would be a 20F synthetic sleeping bag weighing down around 2 lb or less. Maybe not.

thanks for your suggestions Dondo…

still hoping for suggestions of lighter traditional synthetic bags…

Billy

[Dale Wambaugh]

"… I was hoping the synthetic bag technology had improved to the point that there would be a 20F synthetic sleeping bag weighing down around 2 lb or less. Maybe not."

Not. You can get a 30-32F bag close to 32oz, but not a 20F synthetic bag that I would believe the rating. Otherwise it's down. A 32F bag works for me for PNW summer stuff.

[Dondo .]

… uncool and rogue… that's me!

Yeah, me too, Billy. Thanks for pointing out the REI Lumen. I had passed on an earlier version that was heavier and had a higher EN lower limit. Looks like REI has stepped up it's game. I noticed that one reviewer weighed the bag and came up with 42 oz., putting the Lumen more on par with the the Flame and Cats Meow in terms of weight. Still at $110 non-sale price, it's the best deal of the three.

As much as I'd love to have a true 20F synthetic bag at two pounds, I don't think we're quite there yet.

But I'll be keeping a close watch on this thread and hoping that someone surprises us.

[Billy Ray]

Dondo… " I noticed that one reviewer weighed the bag and came up with 42 oz., putting the Lumen more on par with the the Flame and Cats Meow in terms of weight."

I think it's pretty typical for things to weight more than spec. My Cat's Meow weighs about 2oz more than spec :( And I wouldn't be surprised if the Flame does too…

b

[Dondo .]

Billy, it may be typical to understate weight in specs but it doesn't mean that it has to be acceptable.

Certainly, manufacturers can try to gain a competitive advantage by understating weights. Many get away with it because most consumers don't weigh their gear. And there are the natural variations in weight as part of the manufacturing process.

None of this makes any difference to me as a consumer.

In a category of gear like cool weather synthetic bags, where the weight is already straining my weight limits, I have no problem rejecting an item that is two ounces over spec.

In the case of my Cats Meow, my measured weight matched the specs exactly: 42 oz even. Two ounces over and it would have gone right back into the box and returned.

It's one reason why I prefer shopping at brick and mortar stores for non-cottage gear items whenever possible. It saves the expense and aggravation of having to ship over-spec items back.

But you've got me interested in the REI Lumen. When the next 20% sale rolls around, I most likely will head to REI, scale in hand, to check it out. If the weight of the bag matches spec, I may decide saving two ounces is worth $90. (This is BPL land, after all.) If not, I can easily walk away.

[Paul McLaughlin]

Unlike with down, synthetic insulation is not utilized by weight. Since it comes on a roll by the yard, each bag uses a given area of insulation rather than a given weight of it. And the batting varies in wight for a given area – by as much as 10% is not uncommon. So while a down bag can be precisely predicted as to weight, since you are using a given weight of down, which is relatively simple to control, and a given area of fabric and given amounts of notions, which vary little, a synthetic bag will always vary more.
Some manufacturers have been careful to point this out in the past, stating that the published weight is an average an the bags may vary in weight, but I don't see this so much recently.

[Dondo .]

Thanks for your explanation, Paul. It makes sense.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Justin,

Do you really believe there is a quilt on earth as warm as an equal weight mummy bag? Thermal efficiency is always with the mummy bag.

[Dale Wambaugh]

IMHO, quilts can differ from bags in two versions:

Version 1: With a given grade of down and fabric, a quilt has the section that would be compressed by your torso and the hood removed, ending up with the same loft/fabric breathability, reduced bulk and lighter weight.

Version 2: You could build a quilt using the same down and fabric, but add the equivalent "saved" weight from the quilt construction in extra down, so you get more loft for the same weight as the mummy bag— generally warmer for the weight.

I think quilts are fine in 3 season scenarios and for non-thrashing sleepers. A bit of air leak at say 45F is very different than the same leak at something like 15F. You have the head coverage issues too.

[Mo FromBrisbane]

Not sure if this helps, but Locus of Japan do a -5degC quilt. 560g.

http://locusgear.com/products-2/bivys/nyx-synthetic-quilt?lang=en

[Justin Baker]

Yes, I had a 25 ounce-ish 700 fill 10 degree EE quilt (not super light fabric) that kept me just as warm as my 2lb mountain hardwear phantom 15 sleeping bag with 20 ounces of fill.

I decided I hate quilts because I'm a side sleeper who moves around a lot and I always ended up with drafts near my back. But I still think quilts are warmer for the weight, they just don't work for my sleeping style.

[Billy Ray]

Nice to hear all about quilts and down guys…

Now… back to Lightest Synthetic Sleeping Bag ('bag'… that's a non-quilt thing)

Would love to hear about other suggestions for the lightest weight Synthetic 20F bag out there…

Billy

[Ito Jakuchu]

Just a tiny bit warmer, but worth considering I think:

The Mountain Hardwear Hyperlamina Flame or older version Ultralamina 15.

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Backpacking-Sleeping-Bag-Reviews/Mountain-Hardwear-Ultralamina-15

"The Mountain Hardwear Ultralamina 15 is our highest rated synthetic sleeping bag. It earns high marks because it's built with high quality materials and constructed in an efficient and innovative way. It is lighter and more comfortable than other synthetic sleeping bags."

edit – sorry, already mentioned up above. By Hudson F. Consider it a +1 I guess.

[monkey]

I think the suggestions have exhausted themselves – there are only two lightweight synthetic bags currently on the market, Hyper/Ultralamina and Cats Meow.

Having just researched the same topic, these are the only bags recommended on hiking forums as being lightweight. The next close contender is Kifaru Slick at 2.8lbs. Basically everything else is heavier.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Look for a sleeping bag with Climashield insulation.

All synthetic insulation is NOT equal when it comes to retaining that nice new loft after the 30th stuffing. Climashield has so far proven to be the best in this area.

BUT… For the lightest sleeping bag that will resist moisture very well look at down bags with Dri-Down or Down Tech which is down with a good DWR treatment. These new down treatments have shown that they are extremely resistant to moisture accumulation.

[Billy Ray]

"there are only two lightweight synthetic bags currently on the market, Hyper/Ultralamina and Cats Meow….Having just researched the same topic, these are the only bags recommended on hiking forums as being lightweight."

Well… apparently you haven't taken your research to REI… or even read the previous posts in this thread. From earlier in this thread: "REI sells their synthetic Lumen bag with advertised weight of 2 lb 8oz (40oz) for regular length. If this is correct it would seem to be lighter than either the Mountain Hardware Hyperlamina Flame or the Cat's Meow."

Billy

[J-L]

I'll add a couple options:

E-mail Enlightened Equipment and see if they would sew on a full-length zipper to the bottom of one of their synthetic quilts. This is an option they offered at one point in time. Add a synthetic hood/balaclava, and you would have a pretty versatile setup. A 20F, Regular length, Wide width is listed at 33.88 oz, using 8oz Climashield. Given the materials they use, I think it would be the warmest synthetic bag on the market for the weight. A full-length zipper on the bottom would only add 1-2 oz.

Or use a 30F down sleeping bag paired with an oversized 45F synthetic bag or quilt.

[Billy Ray]

Great ideas John! Thanks!

billy

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