Sterno Inferno model 70138 High-tech Sterno?

Gary, for the most recent test I was looking only at the effect of the cozy and not measuring fuel usage.

However, with the ambient temp around 28°F and starting water temp of about 38°F and a boil time around 10:15, I would estimate fuel usage at about 18-20ml compared to the earlier tests with warmer ambient and warmer water where fuel consumption was about 15ml or somewhat less, in 8 to 8:30… for one of the test runs fuel usage was 12.8ml IIRC.

I think the pot support is where the fairy-dusted elves live.  :^)  I’m going to send you the stainless steel version which has exact same dimensions as my original Ti and for which I have gotten identical fuel consumption numbers. I’ve always thought that you should be getting noticeably lower fuel consumption at 5400′ elevation. If that works for you, I can make a Ti version with .005 or .004 material.

The thermometer accurately reads the water temperature, the issue is that when heating water, the water itself is not always a uniform temperature. When the water reaches a full boil, there will be a lot of mixing due to the rising air bubbles

Jon has nailed it. You have to keep stirring the water if you want a uniform temperature to measure. Lab systems usually have stirrers as part of the heating system: either a propeller on a long shaft or a spinning magnetic field in the base of the hot plate with a magnetic slug in the liquid. In my series on CO emissions I used a propeller shaft.

Another bit which can catch you is when the flames go up the sides of the pot. You can find that the metal above the water level can be way above boiling point: try sloshing the water around and see what happens.

Cheers

Gary, here are some speed results that Bob got from earlier testing using his DIY Groove Stove:

Jul 30, 2017 at 9:32 am

I did some quick-n-dirty boil tests last night with this setup using a MYOG groove stove.

With 2 cups of ~60°F water, 20ml DA, full boil in 3:50… 3 boils consistently under 4 min on my somewhat breezy deck.

Pretty darn quick.

Original Starlyte about 9:30 for full boil, flame/pot distance not ideal, and 6:15 for a 12-10 stove, which burned an additional minute after full rolling boil, also with 20ml DA.

I suppose I should do a quality (well documented temps, fuel consumption) test with the Groove Stove in cold weather.

I could imagine trying it for a one-night trip in snow melting mode just to confirm my strong suspicion that it would not be my stove (nor fuel) of choice for a winter PCT!   :^/

Bob, it is very gracious of you to offer the SS pot stand. As far as I can see, there are 3 variables that could enter into my overall performance – my particular Inferno pot ( we know that it is a wee bit lighter than yours, so this might indicate some type of performance difference), the design of the pot stand (height, and also the number and placement of the air intake holes), and the type of insulating base under the stove. I suppose that there could be differences among various XL-3 burners, but I rather doubt it. I’d love to try that SS pot stand, which will be a bit taller than the one I settled upon. If I can get around to it, I’ll do photos of my entire setup for your critique. I shortened my pot stand to 2.5″ tall, to better work with my Starlyte burner. I’d like to see how the XL-3 works for me with your pot stand. design.

Sounds great, Gary. I’ll get it to you soon!

I did a quick test just a few moments ago with the Groove Stove…

Ambient 35°F, water 38°F.

Put 20ml cold DA into the Groove Stove. Too cold to get fuel vaporization in the grooves, which is of course essential for operation. Put the pot (with water) on the pot stand, hoping the system would warm up the stove enough to get it to work properly. It didn’t. Burned for about 5:30 and the water was barely warm.

Total fail. I don’t like anything that requires more than minimal futzing to get it to work in the cold, and I don’t want to have to warm up the fuel.

Thus endeth the Groove Stove testing, lol.

Ah, yes, the Groove Stove. One of my mates here in Boulder anguished over the concept. First while trying to make one, then while trying to make it work, and finally when he wondered why the hell he was even doing this to begin with. So I’m thinking that stove isn’t really all that ‘groovy’. That’s what I like about the Starlyte – futz-free, fast, it works, and it’s pretty light. The XL-3, not so much, in my opinion. Sorry, Dan…

Groove Stove is much easier than the eCHS… I tried that one twice and never got it to work properly.

Looks as if any alky-powered option that requires vaporization ain’t gunna cut it for me.

We can not over look Bob’s results. The EX fins on the Inferno are able to extract and transfer a large amount of heat to the pot. His stove is using alcohol at a very fast rate and the pot is able to absorb the energy.

Gary, you wanted to know the speed of the pot so here it is, Bob’s test results.=

With 2 cups of ~60°F water, 20ml DA, full boil in 3:50… 3 boils consistently under 4 min on my somewhat breezy deck.

The Groove Stove, in a warmer setting… really pumps out some heat!

Dan, I really didn’t care about the speed of the POT, I was more interested in the amount of time that it took for the XL-3 to reach flame-out with the 15 cc of fuel. Also, what results do you suppose Bob might get when using that groove stove with a pot that had no HE fins (such as a MSR Titan kettle)?

As for the relative speed of the Inferno pot, it fared less well than an identical boil with a Jetboil Sol aluminum pot. The JB HE fins seem more efficient in transferring the heat to the water in the pot.

Gary, you have an XL3 and Inferno Pot with windscreen/pot support, give it a test or two with 1/2 ounce and see for yourself.

I’ve already done that, Dan.

what results do you suppose Bob might get when using that groove stove with a pot that had no HE fins (such as a MSR Titan kettle)?

Gary, I can run that test on the stove top in the next couple of days to find out!  :^)

Moving forward. These are the results from a previous post:

1st test, burner weight, 3oz. at begining of test. Water temp at start 64 degrees, air temp 67 degrees. Time to reach boil 10 min. Burner weight at end of test 2-1/2oz. fuel used 1/2 oz.

2nd test, burner weight, 2-1/2 oz. at beginning of test. Water temp at start 64 degrees, air temp 64 degrees. Time to reach boil 11 min. Weight of burner at end of test 2-1/4 oz.(62 grams) 1/4 ounce fuel used.

3rd test, burner weight, 62 grams at beginning of test. Water temp at start 62 degrees, air temp 62 degrees. Time to reach boil 10 min. Weight of burner at end of test 51 grams. 11 grams of fuel used.

I’m going to purchase a USPS Postal Scale and resume testing.

Something I noticed in my testing is that the aluminum pot support/windscreen is transferring heat to the base of the pot adding to the efficiency of the Inferno.

Watch this guy boil water in under 5 min. using a modified Fancee Feest stove and Sterno Inferno cup:

Nice temperature measuring experiments

Of course, keep the sensor away from the edge of the pot, especially don’t let it touch the metal

Let’s see how Hiram does on his testing:

Sterno Inferno using a Trangia burner

4 tests today:

58 degree water and air, 2 cups water, 13 grams of fuel used. 13 min. 35 sec.

60 degree water and air, 2 cups water, 13 grams fuel used. 13 min. 25 sec.

58 degree water, 60 air, 2 cups water, 11 grams fuel used. 11 min

57 degree water and air, 2 cups water, 12 grams fuel used, no timing performed.

I used the Inferno cup and support with the Starlyte XL3. I started with the burner weighing at 85 grams and proceeded to perform 4 tests without refueling. After 4 tests, the burner weighs in at 34 grams. Tomorrow I’ll continue with the burner at 34 grams and see how many cups I can boil with remaining fuel.

Warning – If your own negligence allows your stove to become a runaway freight train of flaming fury, the Inferno is going to live up to its name and you’ll have to cough up $23 for a new one. Darn.

Tell us what happened, water boiled completely dry? Pray tell, what caused it?

I was testing some new dry bake recipes. It was fairly windy so I was using a windscreen which was propped open on one side (it’s too small for a canister stove – which I knew, hence why it was propped open). The wind rattled my prop loose which allowed that windscreen to roll up tight as a drum around my canister and stove. I guess the heat allowed the fuel in the canister to vaporize at a huge rate because that stove was rockin’ when I came back outside.

So, in a nutshell, dry baking with a canister stove which requires more caution, my make shift windscreen malfunctioning, and me going inside for about 8 minutes to talk to my wife. Yeah, it was my fault. Lol.

Dear me – that pot might leak a bit… More seriously, you were damn lucky it did not explode with you nearby.

I carry a couple of Ti micro-stakes (100 mm x 1.6 mm) to hold the corners of my windshield in place. Total weight a gram or two. Reliability very high. Recommended.

Cheers

You can’t dry bake with any HX pot. At all. ever.