Almost SUL . . .

[Jerry Adams]

In PNW including winter, I wear nylon long shirt and pants, long GoreTex jacket if it's raining. Carry synthetic vest, down sleeping bag, pyramid tent, self inflating mattress. I stay warm enough, doesn't make me scared : )

[Adrian Cardenas]

Your set set up for winter wouldn't scare many. What it comes down to for me is I wouldn't leave an insulating at home in the summer in the Sierras or PNW. I doubt Edward is wearing such a layering at the outset.

[Edward Jursek]

There was a question about my insulating layers and clothes, or the lack there of, in my SUL kit. After hiking in the PNW for 15 years I am OK with going pretty light on clothes in the summer. My worn cloths are merino socks, Arcteryx Rampart Pants, merino shirt, Tilly hat. I then have a wind shirt and poncho. For sleep I have a down balaclava and dry socks.

Sure, I have been snowed on in late July/early August before in the PNW. Made for a chilly morning breaking camp and a chilly night setting up, but no issues while walking. The most important thing is that your sleeping bag is up to the weather. When going SUL I do more milage and basically walk all day. I am only chilly, if at all, in the morning packing up and at night setting up. My 30 degree cuben quilt will keep me warm even if I am wet, as it acts as a VBL. I also put on my wind shirt in the morning or evening if needed, as much for the bugs as for the cold. On particularly cold mornings I wear my quilt while doing most of my packing. As for staying dry, my poncho helps keep my core dry. My Rampart pants, merino shirt, and wind shirt all dry out pretty quick and perform well when wet so long as I am moving. My SUL trips are pretty short, 2 to 3 days, so discomfort if it comes is pretty easy to deal with. I have never felt unsafe going SUL.

[Robert Fomenko]

Going from heavy to lighter, I find posts like these interesting but would never do what you propose.There is a fine line between sense and nonsense, not sure where it is with many of you, but for me, I am trying to find out.
For instance, going without toilet paper is nonsense. And a few wet wipes as well.
Going without a good shelter system is nonsense to me. During spring break, in Big Bend National Park, high winds and rain came up at 0400. Blew my Go lite shanghai la down, mostly due to the fact that I replaced my tried and true pegs with titanium pegs. In that soil they failed. Luckily between me and my son, we were able to keep from being blown off the hill with our weight. In a grandma gatewood cape… don't want to even think about it.
Changed out from a exped symat to a ul synmat. a lot lighter. I would not use a foam pad again. Ever. At 57 my body would not like it. Sleep is important to me.
So I continue to shed weight but still bring stuff that I am confortable with. Maybe a bit less each trip, but would not go that light.
just my 2 cents.

[Edward Jursek]

Ah, there is seldom an SUL discuss here where members don't chime in about "stupid light" or how insane, reckless and suicidal this SUL kit is or that SUL kit. You would think SUL hikers would be dying by the dozens each year of exposure, hypothermia, and discomfort or are being plucked like fruit in helicopter rescues, wrapped in silver space blankets mumbling "I went too light, went too light, went too light" over and over again as they shiver convulsively. I suspect a massive Forest Service/Nat'l Park Service conspiracy to hide all of these horrible SUL deaths and dramatic rescues on the trail in collusion with the cottage manufactures and the cuben fiber industrial complex.

[Monte Masterson]

I too am baffled by the criticisms leveled at SUL backpackers.

If I'm going to be sleeping out in temps above 40 degrees, and I don't need to pack more than 2 days of food, I find it pretty easy to SAFELY get under 5 lbs BPW.

I don't own a Gatewood, but I'm sure if it's properly set up, it can handle fairly strong winds with no problem.

Comfortably going SUL does cost a little more. My big 4 are 1) SMD Feather 2) MB UL #5 3) custom ZPacks tarp w/MLD Bug Bivy 4) Klymit Inertia X-Lite ($900 total).

I've read scores of posts labeling SUL backpackers as "masochists", "flippant", "adherents of self-flagellation", etc. Here's my response to that: if you want to pack around a boat anchor, go ahead and be stupid. Suffer with your overly cautious, overloaded pack. Fact is that a heavy load is much more dangerous on steep trails.

I constantly see backpackers who are struggling just to make it another quarter mile. I rarely see anyone traveling light. I just don't get it.

The person who showed me the way to UL was an ex roommate of mine who did 2 tours in Vietnam as a Green Beret. He spent weeks at a time behind enemy lines. He said one of the reasons the Viet Cong were so effective was because they traveled light. The average GI carried a 60 pound+ pack and all of the "stuff" which served to bog him down, whereas the VC just had an AK-47, some extra ammo and a ball of rice.

But traveling heavy is kind of the American way…the big car, the big house, the gigantic gas guzzling RV , the fat gut hanging over the belt, the huge carbon footprint. In general, we are not a "minimalist" society, so I'm not surprised to see so many pilgrims out on the trail carrying packs 3 times heavier than they need to be. I personally don't want knee replacement surgery.

[Edward Jursek]

I agree Monte. I understand people might not want to go SUL, that they might have their own personal safety issues or comfort issues. What I see too much of is the need to turn that into criticism of people who do try and push past traditional UL weights. Now the new rage is the "I am so over the whole weight thing and so beyond labels" crowd. I call them the "Post SUL crowd." SUL is so formalistic and passé, man, with all those oppressive labels and weights pushed on us by the cuben cottage industrial complex. I also get that mentaility, but again, their is the need to criticize those who do actually still weight things and still look at overall weights as goals. I weight things and look at overall weight as a guide and goal, then tailor it to my own safety and comfort levels. I must be reckless, insane and old school. I lighten up so that when I hike, I can do more . . . . hiking. I don't carry a puffy because my hiking does not involve long stretches lounging around camp in the morning or evening feeling safe and superior to those crazy stupid light freaks. However, you will have to pry my torso length inflatable mattress from my cold, dead fingers. I am so bourgeois.

[Ian]

After DXing my hard shell for a poncho, Prophet for Core, and a few other changes, I'm not sure if I've reached the SUL threshold yet or not. The acronyms may not be worth much but all things being equal, a lighter pack is better than a heavier pack.

The big question is, are all things truly equal?

Similar to what Ned mentioned, I ditched my insulating layers last year. It took a number of trips where I was wet and the temperatures were dipping to the low 40s/high 30s before I got to that point. This won't work for everyone and I think this falls under "if you have to ask, don't leave your insulating layer at home." For me, I found that it was just dead weight and I never used it.

So what's my back up plan if I bite off more than I can chew? My sleeping bag. I can either jump in it or or wrap it around me. If things get really bad, I just keep moving. I never wear insulation when I'm moving in temperatures above 20*f, although I do bring an insulating layers for breaks and whatnot when the lowest expected temperatures will bounce between 20*-32*f. Anything above 32*f, sleeping bag is it for me.

[R Banks]

While I don't live in the PNW, and regularly hike the PNW, I did hike the PCT and encountered lots of rain, and some snow. I soon found out what being wet and cold is like for days on end.

Here's my list i used for my thru.

http://lighterpack.com/r/d1s89a

However I did switch out my Down jacket for my melanzana micro grid hoody, (10oz) and ended up preferring it much more. With down jackets (especially in wet weather) it's really only used for two things.

Sleeping warmth.
…and Putting it on at a break spot or when getting up in the morning. A down jacket is not going to make the cold go away. If you hike in it for more than a couple minutes you'll sweat it out. Plus if it's raining it's not like you can throw it on during rest stops or when you get up to break camp. My Fleece hoody adds quite a bit of warmth while hiking, and usually if I sweat a bit it transfers my sweat well enough that it doesn't get soaked, and it dries extremely fast. On thru hiking especially I didn't stop alot, and so down was wasted (for me at least). If i wanted to hang out with friends i would wrap my sleeping bag around or stuff it inside my rain jacket, and have the warmest jacket around!

I would usually go Baselayer>Fleece hoody>wind shirt>rain jacket. This allowed me to be warm at just about any temperature while moving.

HYOH of course, but for me this system works.

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