Almost SUL . . .

[Edward Jursek]

Below is the link to my "almost SUL" kit. Looking for any way to slim up. The kit is for hiking in the PNW, mostly the North Cascades, for summer months. Trips with this kit will typically be 2-3 days long.

http://lighterpack.com/r/4lvo4t

[Mo FromBrisbane]

Can't comment much on your list, as I'm a novice, but that's a NICE website!

[Nick Gatel]

Well it looks like you need to shed over a pound (1.22). Problem is, you are going to need to change how you operate and that might not be worth it to you. That extra pound plus is really difficult… it is about 20% reduction!

I never use sleep socks or a spare pair for trips. -2.4 ounces

You have a foam pad (GG) so leave the NeoAir at home – 8 ounce

Trail Designs GVP Kit is 3 ounces. -2.2 ounces

PNW water is generally plentiful. Use CLO2 tablets and 2 1-liter Platys (.9 oz ea) -3.2 ounces

You should be able par down topical & FAK – 2 ounces

SAK Classic are about .9 ounces. A razor blade is 4 grams

So you would save just under a pound. Still not there.

Leaving iPhone at home might make the difference.

A few years ago I documented a trip where my base weight was under 4 lbs with temps down to freezing. This was an experiment for XUL with poor weather. I had rain gear, shelter, an insulating layer (which I didn't see on your list). I even took an iPhone as an experiment. I detailed the gear list down to the individual items in my FAK. I often use iterations of this kit for 2-3 day trips. Also some of this stuff is expensive: EE Cuben quilt and cuben shelter and rain gear.

XUL Trip

P.S. If you use trekking poles you can buy one of those compass thingies on Kickstarter, move your compass to the pole and save an ounce :(

Just being a smart*ss.

[Monte Masterson]

Wow, very impressive list Edward.

I agree with Nick on the cook Kit. You could switch to an Evernew EBY-265 400 ml cup (1.7 oz) and a .5 oz aluminum windshield and knock off about 3 oz.

As far as water purification, maybe you just don't do chemicals, and I can respect that…but yes, 1 oz of Aqua Mira would provide all the safe water you need.

I use a Klymit inertia X-lite pad and I like it just as much as the Neo-Air X-lite. Weighs 5.9 oz.

Seems like you could just make photo copies of the parts of the maps you need, that'll knock off about an ounce and a half. 2 oz sounds heavy for a map.

I personally wouldn't bring the I-Phone. As you already know, much of going SUL is about getting down and dirty and foregoing everything that isn't actually NEEDED.

Nick is also right on the FAK, you could knock off 1 oz.

I saw on a recent thread where Ron at SMD says he is going to produce the Gatewood in Cuben. It will weigh 8 oz…can't wait!

[Dave P]

Everything else has been mentioned above:

– There are lighter flashlights from Fenix, Zebra or Olight.
– Peters' Headnets are about half an ounce

Other than that, anything worthy of critique requires having a different mentality of camping. I recommend reading other people's SUL gear lists.

Ryan Jordan has a list that I really like because it's similar to a gear list from 1956 which I read about. Adjust the list from 1930s equipment and update it for 2010s (eg. substituting the axe for pair of trekking poles and a self-contained stove), and one will find they can be sub-5 lbs very easily.

[David Thomas]

To concur with Nick:

"Topical bug lotion/sun tan lotion/hand sanitizer/Dr. Bonners = 4 oz"

is heavy for that trip length. Have you EVER emptied a container of goo on a short trip? Then bring less. In a smaller container. I like professional sample tubes that I then refill between trip with a syringe sold in grocery store for injected a turkey/roast. But various sites offer small tubes for people who blend cosmetics at home. DEET, SPF, santitizer, and soap could each be under 0.5 ounces with container for a total under 2 ounces. You just find smaller containers than the 1-ounce ones in the "travel-size" sample rack at the store.

"compass 1 oz"

When was the last time you triangulated off of two peaks to find your position?

Yeah, me neither. So a tiny button compass could let you keep your bearings if you got socked in or needed to orient yourself on a cloudy night. For that matter, my phone has a compass in it.

Bigger style / philosophical choices:

Skip the phone. It goes well with the whole "getting away from it all" aspect of a BPing trip.

Go no-cook. That goes very well with high-mileage trips because time saved not cooking can be used to hike. And you can eat many no-cook foods as you hike. I get warmer faster eating an oatmeal cookie as I start hiking in the morning than standing around a stove waiting for water to boil.

I didn't see a toothbrush or toothpaste.

[Nick Gatel]

"I didn't see a toothbrush or toothpaste."

Well… Your teeth aren't going to fall out if you don't brush them for 2 or 3 days ;)

[Bob Gross]

"When was the last time you triangulated off of two peaks to find your position?"

The last time that I _had_ to do that was around 1995. Since then, I have shot off one peak many times.

I think it is a good idea to practice doing that once in a while to retain the skill. Granted, most of the time in the summer we have good visibility, and we can just eyeball our navigation by the map. Once in a while when the clouds close in, you can't find any landmarks. That is when a good GPS receiver pays for itself.

Incidentally, I attended a free presentation at REI one time, and it was on map and compass navigation. Ultimately, they want to sell you expensive GPS receivers and expensive map database subscriptions. However, first they want to get you started with map and compass. I could not believe how inept the presenter was. He got his terminology wrong enough to be confusing, and he ended up doing a lot of hand-waving. The scary part was that lots of people now spend money for those map and compass classes. Their bodies may not be found.

–B.G.–

[Nick Gatel]

"I think it is a good idea to practice doing that once in a while to retain the skill. Granted, most of the time in the summer we have good visibility, and we can just eyeball our navigation by the map."

Amen to that. A few years ago I was trying to navigate some desert canyons and realized my map and compass skills had really deteriorated even though Uncle Sam had provided me with first class training and plenty of opportunities for need to actually be competent at it. So I went out and practiced a lot to get those skills up to par again. I don't have a GPS anymore – gave to a BPL member. It was a heavy burden.

[Bob Gross]

"I don't have a GPS anymore – gave to a BPL member. It was a heavy burden."

It depends on what you mean by heavy.

Mine weighs about 3 ounces. I keep lithium batteries in it so that it lasts for a very long time at the small rate that I use it. But when I need it, I need it.

I especially need it to mark where I park my car at the start of a trip. It is commonly before sunrise, so I can't get good visual clues to the car location. Then when I return a week later, I don't want to have to wander aimlessly back and forth in the parking lots looking for the car.

I could rely on my satellite communicator since it has a built-in GPS function. However, it will only tell me where I am located, and not where the car is. Plus, it is kind of slow to get a GPS fix.

–B.G.–

[Sam Riggle]

Find soft campsites and lose that Half pound "brick" of a Neo Air.

An entire half pound for one item, since you have the NightLite in the list with the Neo Air, you lose the half pound fully.

I know many people would never give up their inflatable, but it's the best way to shed instant weight.

And I mean, come on, a HALF POUND. ;)

You're list is good. I'm sure you already know all the ways to reduce, you just need the confirmation. Cuben this, cuben that, big money. But it takes the skill and experience too use it as well. (You don't need cuben to be SUL)

Anyway, great list of gear man. Good luck.

Edit: stupid iPhone.

[Jerry Adams]

"Find soft campsites and lose that Half pound "brick" of a Neo Air"

I like to camp at established campsites. Concentrate the impact of humans on just a few spots. But then the sleeping surface is hard so I need a heavy mattress.

[Nick Gatel]

"Find soft campsites and lose that Half pound "brick" of a Neo Air.

An entire half pound for one item, since you have the NightLite in the list with the Neo Air, you lose the half pound fully."

Ah, easy for you young'ns to say :)

[Edward Jursek]

I appreciate all of the insights. I can certainly cut down on the topical and first aid stuff for a 2 to 3 day trip. I can also come up with a new SUL cook set for short trips. As a 47 year old with multiple old sports injuries, ditching the NeoAir is another matter. I might try a night on the trail with out inflating the mattress and see how the torso CCF mat feels now. If it is OK, I will ditch the NeoAir. However, I suspect sleeping on a CCF alone is a young person's game.

[Nick Gatel]

Here is the thing about foam pads and getting older — at least for me.

I have to get my body into shape to use a foam pad. If I am going to be out for more than 4 nights, by the 4th night I am okay. Also, prior to a trip I often will sleep on the floor for a couple nights before hand. Additionally it is critical for me is to find a good campsite. Established heavily used sites generally suck; the ground has become hard-packed. Of course, in deserts, it is often easy for me to find a nice sandy spot, but not always. A lot of desert terrain is mixed with gravel and rocks.

I will be 65 this year and sometimes use just a foam pad. But more and more, I am using a NeoAir. Most of my 3 seasons trips have a base weight of 6-7 pounds. I would say about 30% of my trips (2-3) days are sub 5 lb, unless I need to carry a lot of water; for that I am using an internal frame pack.

I am past UL, SUL, XUL. My kit weighs what it needs to weight based on the trip. Once in a while I will hike with another person, usually someone half my age, so in those cases I will often go the SUL route so I can keep up and not slow the other person down. I am not suffering on those trips either.

[W I S N E R !]

"I am past UL, SUL, XUL. My kit weighs what it needs to weight based on the trip."

Yes Nick!

We're treading into the realm of forgoing what you know is comfortable and works for you just to obtain a title or make the numbers on a spreadsheet look better…Why?

[Jeffs Eleven]

Packing less makes you more. It says so at the top of the page.

Come on you guys, y'all have been here long enough to know that.

[jscott]

Fer god's sake don't leave your inflatable at home…are you mad?

[Andy F]

In rain, I wouldn't enjoy having to stay in my shelter once it's setup.

If it's important enough to you, stakes can be eliminated in forested areas. Use sticks as stakes, or tie guylines off to trees and branches. All of these require some skills compared to just using carried stakes though.

Can you cook over a twig fire to eliminate your stove/fuel weight?

You probably don't really need any of the topicals except bug lotion, depends on sun exposure though.

TP is a bit of a luxury item for SUL isn't it? :)

[Nick Gatel]

"TP is a bit of a luxury item for SUL isn't it? :) "

Not for me.

[Sam Riggle]

Hey, I am a young'un, but I can't sleep on foam either! I've got some rather strenuous back injuries from my wrestling days. I actually just bought a NeoAir small myself. Now that I've laid on it, I don't think I'd go on a trip without it. But, it is already delaminating on the inside, straight out of the box. So it's a tough call whether I should trust that Cascade Designs fixed the problem in the newest model and warranty mine or refund it and stick with my old pad. I used a Prolite extra small up till I got the Neoair. It's actually a really nice sleep. But it's the same weight as the Neo, so why not upgrade!

Anyway, I think you're kit is perfect the way it is. No REAL reason to cut anymore. I don't even weigh my pack anymore. I load up what I need and I take it. It's always light enough. Never more than ten pounds in the winter and around 5-6 in the summer. And that's with just ONE cuben item. :) Just get out and enjoy it man.

Sorry, I'm not much help. I'll leave it to those with more experience in this realm. ;)

[Edward Jursek]

I took a trip a couple of weeks ago with the list I originally posted, and mulled over all the suggestions while I was in the field. Next trip I think I will leave the cook set behind as was suggested. Won't cost me anything and I will just need to change up my dinner, as I don't use the cook set for breakfast. Also, where are you guys sourcing your smaller bottles and containers for things like sun tan lotion etc? Thanks for all of the tips! I will continue to focus on things I can live with eliminating to see where the bottom of minimalism is for me. I am not really focused on the weight so much, but I am using it as a guide.

[Mike M]

MLD has this "kit" with a nice assortment

http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=182

individual bottles, vials etc

http://www.ultralightdesigns.com/products/packing/packing.html

[Link .]

many places including your local stores and pharmacy but here are some examples
USPLASTICS
USPLASTICS
Ultralight Designs
GossamerGear
MountainLaurelDesigns
You could make toothpaste dots like Mike C. shows or there are Archtek Toothpaste Tablets so only bring exactly what you need in a snack size bag for any given trip instead of a whole tube and THESE are good for little thing like pills, toothpaste tablets ect. so you are not packing a whole bottle(you can also get them very cheap at most pharmacies) .

[Adrian Cardenas]

I'm not anywhere near SUL so please take these questions for what they are (i.e. someone trying to learn more). Are you really not carrying any more clothes in the PNW? This would scare me to death… What are you wearing at the outset? What am I missing?

Best,
Adrian

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