Paradox Unaweep vs. Exped Lightning 60

Frame, belt and shoulder harness are all identical. They have different features (pockets, etc) and are built for different frame heights (Divide 24", Unaweep 26").

Got it. Thanks,

Just curious. I've now read a few times that people are using unaweep on packrafting trips. So do people just store the raft in the bag? Wouldn't it be more convenient to buy the load shelf ad on (they used to sell it, but I can't find it on the website now) that turns the unaweep into an evolution backpack, and then store the raft at the bottom and use a large drybag on top for packbag?

Hi Phillip Yes, exactly like that! :-) Nice work! What does it weigh now? Is it just as waterproof now, as when "untouched"? What did you do with the all of the numerous compression straps?

Peter – the Unaweep comes standard with the load shelf. The difference between the Unaweep and the Evolution is that the load shelf and compression straps are sewn to the pack bag. On the Evolution they are attached to the frame so it can be used without a pack bag just using the talon and load shelf. The load shelf may have some use for packrafting as you mention though I haven't heard of anyone doing that in perticular. I intend to leave the load shelf on my 4800 so I can use the Talon if I do another packrafting trip. If I get a 3900 pack bag I will cut the load shelf off cause I wouldn't use that bag packrafting. The pack material is waterproof and I sealed the seams on my pack prior to my trip. I didn't really notice any leaking but I would never rely on a pack as my only waterproofing at least in wet areas. Packs end up with a lot of potential entry points and have a lot of seams that get stressed making them harder to waterproof especially over time. I would always put my down bag in at least a silnylon stuff sack if not some sort of dry bag.

A packraft folds smaller and carries much better using the Dial method, which puts a fairly narrow, rectangular bundle up against your back. Having the boat inside also protects it from abrasion.

The Divide is optimized for a 24 inch frame height and for shorter torso heights. The Unaweep is optimized for a 26 but can be used at 24 (more likely to barrel) and is better for medium or longer torsos. The Divide does have only 2 compression straps standard, with the option to add several (which are provided ) with the pack bag. The Divide, was based on many people wishing to have stretchy type pockets, but from the comments it sounds like many would like it without stretchy pockets (either a more durable mesh or standard fabric). The Divide can do almost anything the other packs can do , but does it a little different. It can take a lid , or a talon, the one thing missing is the load shelf which does mean lighter face fabric versions are more subject to abrasion on the bottom. Regarding how waterproof, I took a standard 4800 on a rafting trip in AK (no zipper and no seam sealing) that was mostly class 3 and some class 4, I did flip my IK one time and it took a pretty long ride down river and I was pretty surprised how dry it was. It was no worse than the dry bag strapped on the back. Some water did get in, but it was not excessive. Since the trip, was almost all whitewater, it had several days of testing and as long as I did my part (closing it well) it was livable for me For us, the best feedback is direct. Call us , or email us and tell us what you would like or what you are looking for. If there are enough requests, it is likely to become a product. There is no guarantee we will make everything , but sometimes it is a simple change , and sometimes there are just not enough requests for something. One thing that seems pretty common at least from our customer group, is we don't have a lot of people that constrain themselves to summer backpacking on trails. Our customers, seem to do some pretty awesome adventures, often a lot off trail, a lot of winter etc). We do place a pretty high value on long term durability and re-usability and thus we will stray from many pure UL concepts. The harness is one example, a sewn in is obviously lighter, but we want our packs to fit a lot of people and thus be more re-usable. We also double up on the stretch parts on the Divide for example to increase long term durability. The list could get long, but often decisions are on reducing stress of face fabrics etc.

Kevin that is good to hear about the waterproofing. I read your trip report and it looks like you had quite the trip (even if you didn't get a caribou). I don't like the stretchy pockets on the Divide, but I may be the only one as like I said that seems to be what most pack makers are using nowadays. My wifes Granite Gear Crown 60 Ki has stretchy pockets, as does the Exped Lightning 60 that I compared to the Unaweep. I just lack the dexterity to get water bottles out (and back in) to the pockets when they are like that. I do very much appreciate the fact that you do come on these (and other) forums and are willing to discuss your products, and are willing to listen to feedback and modify products. My personal perfect pack would be: Same Divide/Unaweep suspension Removable compression straps (using plastic looplocs much like you attach the load lifters on the packpack to the suspension parts) McHale uses this method and it makes it very nice to be able to add/remove compression straps as desired for each individual trip. No load shelf (and no talon in my case) X21RC fabric (I thought this was a fantastic fabric) Perhaps an VX42 or X51 bottom??? No "Y" over the top strap (I roll the top of the pack and attach it to the bottom compression straps) No ice ax loops (that is just me – some people would probably use them) I am about to order a 3900 pack bag if you want to try any of these out :) I am hoping to get a 3900 Unaweep pack for 2.5 pounds or under

"I am hoping to get a 3900 Unaweep pack for 2.5 pounds or under" The standard 3900 in X21RC is 42 oz which is 2 oz over your desired weight. "Perhaps an VX42 or X51 bottom???" Which would weigh more than X21RC with 500D Cordura load shelf. I didn't think that as well. I have the 3900 X21 from last year, for the first year I used it without a talon. This year I used it with a talon. I found the talon totally worth the extra weight to my surprise. I want a 4800 and 2400 bags, so I am building them myself for fun and to see how light I can make them. If you aren't into making your own bags how about getting someone like http://www.zimmerbuilt.com to build you one? The thought has crossed my mind as his work is so good.

Kevin Timm, as Brad, I very much appreciate you commenting here. Shows that you stand by your products, and are proud of them – rightfully so! As I haven't even seen any of your packs IRL, I probably should try to limit my requests for new designs in the smaller details. So I'll try and make it more general. Personally, I would love to own a unaweep system, and 2-3 packbags to go with it. This would be my only backpacks for hiking then. Because I don't mind paying for several packbags, I wouldn't need the compression system to be as specialised/overbuilt as it is now with all the many straps and talon and loadshelf. It probably makes sense if it's important for someone that wishes to have one packbag to do it all and have a super effective compression system. I'd rather just change packbags when needing another size. But then again, maybe I'd change my mind if I tried the system…

Maybe I just want the unaweep to be cleaner in the design…somehow I feel the look doesn't do the pack justice. I know…i know…now I'm talking about looks…

Curtis you are right the 3900 Unaweep is listed at 2lbs 10 oz but my 4800 came in a couple of ounces over spec (probably due to the large hipbelt) and my add on hipbelt pockets from Zimmerbuilt are 2.4oz, so I will probably need to cut between 2-6oz to make my goal (which I am sure is doable). I realize I wouldn't be saving any weight with a x42 bottom over the X21+load shelf but I wouldn't think it would weigh more either (I could be wrong). I just think it would be less cumbersome for use without a talon. I have had packs with 210denier bottoms before and they did "ok-ish" but more durable would be better. I can see where the talon would be fantastic for securing bulky items like a packraft paddle etc. I am just used to a very clean simple pack (except for the water bottle pockets) and am just trying to save the weight. I had no issues with how the pack performed without a talon in Alaska just that there is potential weight savings and clutter reduction for removing some straps etc if you do not plan on using a talon. The Unaweep frame/suspension is the most exciting backpack frame I have seen in a long time. The potential for this system is huge. I think it is a better choice than the Exped Lightning or the HMG Porter. (For disclosure I have an Exped Lightning and my wife had an HMG Windrider-but I have not personally tried the Porter) I had thought about Zimmer but since Seek Outside is already using my fabric of choice and is so close design wise to what I want, I prefer to give them the business. If I wanted something completely different then I would have no problem getting Chris to do his thing.

Bradford, "The Unaweep frame/suspension is the most exciting backpack frame I have seen in a long time. The potential for this system is huge." I totally agree with you. For the MYOG crowd it makes building packs small and large, so much easier. I like the idea of a clean pack. A nice side effect of making my own pack bags is my wife thinks I have picked up a great new hobby and I can make as many pack bags as I want :-) I would be interested to hear about the 3900 bag you end up with.

David, thank you for clearing that up. I actually bought Roman Dials book on packrafting, but just doesn't remember reading about how best to pack the raft.

How to fold Packrafts – by Roman Dial